Spirituality
05 Jun 22
15 Jun 22
@vistesd2 saidNo, the thing about truth is that it is always true; it doesn't change with time, and
@FMF
For KellyJay, if you don’t share his faith now – then you never had any real faith at all: it was a deceit, a sham. Any other possibility would be threatening to him. As are rational discussions about the logical criteria for truth and knowledge. He lives in his own religious menagerie. As you have said: as long as that keeps him from harming anyone else, fine. But l ...[text shortened]... are able to maintain your ataraxia whilst doing so. For me, I find it sapping. That’s on me.
nor does it change with our opinions. Saying there is no God now and what I once
believed only says that my opinion has changed, not the truth of what I once
believed. I wasn't always a Christian; that didn't happen to me until I was 25. I'm a
day away from 66 now; reality didn't change 41 years ago; I did. If the claim is
made that I once believed this to be true only means that my opinion changed
what I once believed either is or isn't true regardless of my opinion.
The Christian faith is one where Christ comes into our lives; it isn't one that just
rules on how to behave; there is a transformation that occurs with God entering us
due to Jesus dying for us and God accepting us, not us accepting God. So if our
Christianity is all about us, our this or that, our works, doctrine, dogma, which we
can have and still not have Christ; we have it all in Jesus' name only.
15 Jun 22
@fmf saidIf you knew God to be faithful and true, then He isn't! Then did you know God?
Well, I lost my faith, KellyJay. I have made no secret of the fact. You seem to think that me losing my faith means that I cannot view your faith through the prism of my own quarter of a century of adult life during which time I lived and breathed that same faith ~ like you ~ "through good and bad times".
You couldn't deny the One you knew to be true unless you never really knew Him,
You could deny and renounce the One you didn't know, not the One you did.
@kellyjay saidYes, KellyJay. But we can ONLY have opinions about what "the truth" is in these matters.
No, the thing about truth is that it is always true; it doesn't change with time, and
nor does it change with our opinions.
I have Muslim friends who have had stunning, affecting, personal experiences with tangible impacts on their lives on account of their faith and the perceived intervention of their God figure.
The fact that you have had comparable experiences with your God figure [and I did too, for that matter] does not constitute evidence that your faith and "the truth" are one in the same.
Ultimately, your faith [just as mine was] is a set of deeply personal and life-affecting opinions.
@kellyjay saidYes. These things you mention are tenets of Christian belief.
The Christian faith is one where Christ comes into our lives; it isn't one that just
rules on how to behave; there is a transformation that occurs with God entering us
due to Jesus dying for us and God accepting us, not us accepting God.
There is a belief that "Christ comes into [people's] lives".
And the belief that there is "a transformation that occurs with God entering [people]".
This isn't disputed.
This thing about how "...it isn't just rules on how to behave" ~ who are you arguing with as you mention this? Who has claimed it is only "rules on how to behave"?
It is yet another strawman. You keep resorting to them.[What was it yesterday? Something about "only going through the motions"? A gormless and grasping strawman if ever there was one.]
It's as if you have a checklist of informal fallacies written on a Moebius band to which you continually refer.
You are being disngenuous.
15 Jun 22
@fmf saidYou can have opinions about the weather, that doesn't mean the weather isn't real.
Yes, KellyJay. But we can ONLY have opinions about what "the truth" is in these matters.
I have Muslim friends who have had stunning, affecting, personal experiences with tangible impacts on their lives on account of their faith and the perceived intervention of their God figure.
The fact that you have had comparable experiences with your God figure [and I did too, for th ...[text shortened]...
Ultimately, your faith [just as mine was] is a set of deeply personal and life-affecting opinions.
15 Jun 22
@fmf saidNo, not true when God says I will never leave you or forsake you, we can count on that being true. When God says if we seek Him with all our hearts we will find Him, that to is a truth we can count on!
If it's raining on you and me as we stand together, what is there to speculate about? When it comes to "the truth" of supernatural causality, we can only speculate.
What will happen is He has us, that doesn’t mean every expectation we think that means will occur as we want it to. Some times it is not my will but yours be done.
Or we could hear from God our will be done.
@kellyjay saidI am fully aware of your personal opinion that when your God figure supposedly says if people seek Him with all their hearts, they will find Him, then it is totally true and real.
When God says if we seek Him with all our hearts we will find Him, that to is a truth we can count on!
15 Jun 22
@vistesd2 saidI'm so glad you're back! You were badly burnt out by the rancor in the forum back a few years, I seem to recall. All things in moderation, as they say.
@FMF
For KellyJay, if you don’t share his faith now – then you never had any real faith at all: it was a deceit, a sham. Any other possibility would be threatening to him. As are rational discussions about the logical criteria for truth and knowledge. He lives in his own religious menagerie. As you have said: as long as that keeps him from harming anyone else, fine. But l ...[text shortened]... are able to maintain your ataraxia whilst doing so. For me, I find it sapping. That’s on me.