Originally posted by RJHindsYeah ....I agree there is some room for debate about it and yes people can make a whole new religion off of one verse misunderstood
Don't think I am jumping all over you. I agree with what you just posted here. However. I do not believe that the Lord Jesus is also Michael the archangel. I believe Michael is the Chief General of the army of angels against Satan and his army of demon angels. I believe the Lord Jesus is the Commander in Chief, like the President of the United States or the King, over God's army of angel that includes the General, Michael.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71Precisely! Well said.
He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over all created things. Colossians 1:1 New English Bible
He is the image of the invisible God; his is the primacy over all creation. Colossians 1:15 The Revised English Bible
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both i ...[text shortened]... e. The logic in this verse does not follow if we apply that Jesus was a created being.
Manny
Originally posted by menace71Yes, many times in the Bible, it is understood that a concept is offered and then explained in following verses to make the meaning clear. We have a clear example of this in Col. 1:15-18.
It makes no sense to say that Jesus was the First Created Being and then to say that Jesus is the one who has created everything in both Heaven and Earth. If He did not create Himself then He definitely did not create everything! These ideas are mutually exclusive. It is only when we begin to understand what verse 15 is actually saying that we can say: Yes ...[text shortened]... things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth".
About Colossians 1:15
Manny
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Manny,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
This part of the passage concerns all throughout the Gospel and church age. Whoever hears the voice of the Son of God will be regenerated. The "dead" here are all those living "dead" people who are "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) and need to be born again.
"And you, though being dead in your offenses and sins, ... even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ." (Eph. 2:1,5)
The latter part of the passage concerns the physical dead in the tombs.
Specifically this -
[/b]
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:25-29 [/b]
I think it is already sufficiently established that "Jesus = Michael" is a false teaching. I believe it is a doctrine of demons. And to play around with it, I feel, will lead one into greater spiritual darkness.
If we compare the two Bible texts above (1 Thessalonians 4:16 and John 5:25-28) we see one of the strongest cases for supporting the idea that Michael is Jesus.
Then you are teaching the following -
1.) The Jews wanted to kill the archangel Michael because he made God his own Father, making the archangel equal to God (John 5:18)
2.) The archangel Michael gives life to whom he wills (5:21)
3.) The Father has committed all judgment to the archangel Michael (5:22).
4.) Whoever does not honor the archangel Michael does not honor the Father who sent him (5:23).
This interpretation is not reliable and is false.
The writer was strictly forbidden by an angel to worship any angel of God (Revelation 19:10; 22:8,9).
The Apostle Paul warns the Christians not to fall into the error of worship of the angels -
"Let no one defraud you by judging you unworthy of your prize, in self-chosen lowliness and the worship of the angels, ..." (Col. 2:18a)
In this Paul is reiterating what was said in the book of Hebrews. To no angel (and only three are named) did God ever say "You are My Son ..."
And no angel (except Christ as the Angel of Jehovah) could it ever be said -
"For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell" (Col. 1:19).
"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9)
Originally posted by sonship
Manny,
[b] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
This part of the passage concerns all throughout the Gospel and church age. Whoever hears the voice of the Son of God will be regenerated. The "dead" here are all ...[text shortened]... ell" (Col. 1:19).
"For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:9) [/b][/b]Fully and absolutely correct. Well done, jaywill. 🙂
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121308
Originally posted by menace71Really? fair point. I'm still nowhere near the "Jesus was an angel" camp though.
You know the word Lucifer is not in the bible ? It actually means dawn or Venus but it is not in the bible at least in the original languages good point though
Manny
1. The Lord God said he would make a new covenant.
23 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel:
...
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
(Jeremiah 31:23, 31-34 NKJV)
2. Jesus made a new covenant.
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
(Matthew 26:28 NKJV)
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
(Hebrews 8:7 NKJV)
3. Therefore, Jesus is the Lord God, not Michael the archangel.