"Most violence is caused by mental illness"

@kellyjay said
I'm sure you don't, as long as you don't have to come to some definitive meaning
behind your words, you can say whatever you will; it will not matter, after all; all
you are doing is speculating.

You can also say whatever you will, KellyJay, and you do. And it also does not matter, after all

@fmf said
You can also say whatever you will, KellyJay, and you do. And it also does not matter, after all

Not to you; all you do is speculate.

@fmf said
"Most violence is caused by mental illness".

If that statement were to be true, what would the implications be for the stance of religious people who assert that the level of violence in society is caused by moral decline?

And here I thought most violence was caused by enlightened self-interest.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Doesn't that also apply to all prisons, irrespective of mental health status?

What I posted was not about prisons in general which contain criminal of various types, violent or otherwise. What I posted is applicable to people incarcerated for mental health issues who are never incarcerated because they do good things to other people, they are incarcerated because their mental health issues cause them to do violence to others and/or themselves.

@divegeester said
What is posted was not about prisons in general which contain criminal of various types, violent or otherwise. What I posted is applicable to people incarcerated for mental health issues who are never incarcerated because they do good things to other people, they are incarcerated because their mental health issues cause them to do violence to others and/or themselves.

In which category do you find yourself?

@kellyjay said
Not to you; all you do is speculate.

About supernatural causality, yes.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Doesn't that also apply to all prisons, irrespective of mental health status?

I get that this thread was based on a hypothetical question, but putting that question in quotation marks (implying somebody had actually said it) was misguided, especially as mental health is already greatly stigmatized and misunderstood.

It wasn't "misguided". It was an intentional attempt to create a trap to ensnare Christian posters into questions about morality.

@fmf said
About supernatural causality, yes.

If the natural and the supernatural all share the same beginning, what is the
difference?

@kevin-eleven said
And here I thought most violence was caused by enlightened self-interest.

Do you mean the violence in this forum caused by the posters most interested in themselves?

By the way, why is it your posts appear to go unanswered when they're some of the most interesting?

Could it be because you're just not dupable enough? 🙃

@kellyjay said
If the natural and the supernatural all share the same beginning, what is the
difference?

The difference is that you can only speculate about the supernatural and the outcome of doing this for you is faith, opinions, hopes, consolation, purpose and meaning - all personal, philosophical, and emotional things - while we can use science and objectivity as much as we can to analyze "the natural".

The notion that "the natural and the supernatural all share the same beginning" is an understandable conclusion for you to have reached but it is still just speculation on your part. You and I can only express subjective opinions about matters such as these.

@josephw said
Do you mean the violence in this forum caused by the posters most interested in themselves?

"The violence in this forum"?

@fmf said
The difference is that you can only speculate about the supernatural and the outcome of doing this for you is faith, opinions, hopes, consolation, purpose and meaning - all personal, philosophical, and emotional things - while we can use science and objectivity as much as we can to analyze "the natural".

The notion that "the natural and the supernatural all share the same beg ...[text shortened]... peculation on your part. You and I can only express subjective opinions about matters such as these.

That is all you can do for everything's beginning; there is no difference between
the two, as I pointed out when gravity was brought up. Where did it come from?
If you don't know, you are just speculating about it as anything you would call
supernatural.

@kellyjay said
That is all you can do for everything's beginning; there is no difference between
the two, as I pointed out when gravity was brought up. Where did it come from?

If you think my ideas about crime and morality, and notions about the causes of violence are overly "speculative", then so be it. Engage them. Or don't. Up to you.

But this rhetorical gimmick about gravity is off-topic. The question "Where did it come from?" [seeing as neither of us knows how the universe originated, assuming it did, and we can only offer our theories] is disingenuous.

"How does gravity work?" is a more appropriate question. You can answer, if you want: 'It doesn't really matter, it just exists, and God created it.'

"Where did it come from?" Maybe it has always existed or maybe a creator entity created it. Unlike you, I do not believe that gravity - in and of itself - is a supernatural phenomenon. Physics has no problem explaining what it is and how it works.

Now, what about this thread's topic.

@kellyjay said
"Most violence"

I would hazard a guess that a lot of violence is a result of drunkenness and drug abuse and/or as means of carrying out another crime. I would also think that almost all violence that isn't engaged in for self-defence is the result of morally unsound decisions.

@fmf said
If you think my ideas about crime and morality, and notions about the causes of violence are overly "speculative", then so be it. Engage them. Or don't. Up to you.

But this rhetorical gimmick about gravity is off-topic. The question "Where did it come from?" [seeing as neither of us knows how the universe originated, assuming it did, and we can only offer our theories] is disi ...[text shortened]... ysics has no problem explaining what it is and how it works.

Now, what about this thread's topic.

If we can only speculate about everything, what again is the difference between
the natural and the supernatural? We are speculating the root causes of some
things, or the beginnings of others from the causes of crime, morality, how gravity
got here, and the reasons for violence how is it that what you call supernatural is
for some reason, different from everything else? The material and immaterial all
are here, one has material substance the other though real doesn't, both are part
of the whole and all truth about each of them must fit in with all other truth, or do
you dispute that?