My God, My God why have you forsaken me.

Originally posted by sonship

I also do not see him as a godman, but as a man, the son of God.

Do you know what the word [b]mingle means ?
It means to combine two or more things in such a way that they remain distinquishable in the combination.

In Jesus Christ there is the mingling of God and man. We discern in one Person God and we discern in Him human ...[text shortened]... s God (John 1:1). "And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us,..." (v.14) [/b]

Writers such as Mrs. Jesse Penn-Lewis speak of the subjective death of Christ; that is, the death of Christ for us. In the book entitled Gospel Dialogue (p. 90), Brother Nee answers a question concerning the difference between Christ dying for us and Christ dying for our sins. The following is his answer:

“Christ died for us” means that Christ died for us sinners. The purpose of His death is to save us sinners. What He has accomplished is for us; that is, to gain us, and to deliver us from ourselves.

“Christ died for our sins” signifies that He died for the sins committed by us sinners. The purpose is to take away our sins so that they may be forgiven, and to save us from the penalty and the power of sin so that we are no longer under its dominion.

Generally, today’s Christians know only the first aspect of Christ’s death, that He died for our sins that we may be forgiven by God. They are not as familiar with the second aspect of His death, that He died for us that we may live to Him in the resurrection life (2 Cor. 5:14-15). In the first aspect of His death He bore our sins (1 Pet. 2:24); in the second He was made sin for us (2 Cor. 5:21). This was the reason Mrs. Penn-Lewis was burdened to put out message after message concerning the subjective experience of the cross. To speak of the cross in this way is to speak of the subjective aspect of Christ’s death.

A. B. Simpson also knew the subjective aspect of the death of Christ. One of his hymns opens with these lines:

I am crucified with Christ,
And the cross hath set me free.

Hymns,#482

Both the writings of Mrs. Penn-Lewis on the subjective experience of the cross and the hymns of A. B. Simpson on being crucified with Christ are neglected by Christians today. This indicates that a great many believers have only a superficial understanding of Christ’s death. Therefore, in His recovery the Lord is leading us into a deeper experiential understanding of the all-inclusive death of Christ.

These verses are on the terminating aspect of Christ's death rather than the redemptive aspect.

"For if we have grown together with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection." (Romans 6:5)

Paul pioneered in benefiting from co-death with Christ. He said that he and his co-workers died daily.

He really saw the terminating power of Christ's crucifixion operating in his being to transform the Christian.

" I protest by the boasting in you, brothers, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." (1 Cor. 15:31)

"Knowing this, that our old man has been crucifiewd with Him in order that the body of sin might be annulled, that we should no longer serve sin as slaves.

For he who has died is justified from sin." (Rom. 6:6,)

An argument broke out over whether God forsook Christ on the cross or not. Also a debate happened on whether Christ was made sin for us on the cross or not.

The objective doctrine of these things may be less important than the subjective experience of the power of Christ's death working in us to kill off, terminate, slay. eliminate and nullify negative thins in our being.

The terminating power in Christ's death is in the Holy Spirit.
You have heard of biodegradable. It means that certain microscopic animals help to break down and consume dirt in detergents.

Now I would introduce another word - ZOEDEGRADABLE. ZOE is the Greek word meaning divine life in the New Testament. And the point is that in the Holy Spirit of Jesus there is divine life. And in the divine life there is a power to break down, terminate, consume and degrade all kinds of negative things left in our being from the fall of man.

The Holy Spirit is Christ as LIFE to the believer. And this life of Jesus is, if you will, ZOEDEGRADABLE. We can let His life cross out and terminate germs of the fallen man of all conceivable kind.

Just like the biodegradable detergent breaks up the dirt in dirty cloths in the washingmachine, the Spirit of Jesus Christ gets into the believer and breaks up the fallen sinful nature.

Praise the Lord that the Lord Jesus's Spirit is ZOEDEGRADABLE - by His divine life He terminates the troublesome, bothering fallen self.

Originally posted by sonship

Now I would introduce another word - [b]ZOEDEGRADABLE. [/b]

Originally posted by sonship
The interesting thing is that the Gospel writer was faithful to include this cry of Jesus. A less than honest propagandist could have figured that it gave fuel to their opposition to Christ's self declaration as God's sent Son.

Originally posted by FMF
John did not include Jesus' cry of "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" in his Gospel. Was he not "faithful"? Is he a "less than honest propagandist"?

Originally posted by sonship
John was a faithful testifier of the life of Jesus.
No, he did not include that particular event (Jesus crying out that His God had forsaken Him).

But he did mention some things which could have been problematic just as much. For instance, his prologue clearly says that the Word was God. Yet he does not shy from telling us that Jesus said [b]"My Father ...[text shortened]... ulness of the Gospel writers compelled them to include potentially problematic sayings of Jesus.

Originally posted by FMF
So you take back your rather loose, cod-historian 'observation' that someone who left out the detail would be a "less than honest" writer? 😉

Originally posted by sonship
No.

Originally posted by FMF
You'll never be an intellectually honest historian ~ and therefore never proceed much beyond being a preacher-to-the-choir ~ as long as you reserve the right to use your go-to circular logic to say pretty much anything you want. 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
as long as you reserve the right to use your go-to circular logic to say pretty much anything you want. 🙂

Originally posted by sonship
My choir is getting larger all the time.

Originally posted by FMF
Here at RHP?

While you're on circular reasoning - explain how you use reason to prove that reason leads men to truth.