In spiritual because it seems there is evidence our brains work using quantum mechanics rules.
I put it here because maybe if that is true, there could be connections like quantum entanglement, maybe that could explain things like telepathy and spiritual feelings.
Here is one piece about that in Nature mag.
https://www.nature.com/articles/440611a
@sonhouse saidQuantum Entanglement. Is that like a mental disease? Has a nice ring to it.
In spiritual because it seems there is evidence our brains work using quantum mechanics rules.
I put it here because maybe if that is true, there could be connections like quantum entanglement, maybe that could explain things like telepathy and spiritual feelings.
Here is one piece about that in Nature mag.
https://www.nature.com/articles/440611a
I heard that it describes the function of the Spirit that directs the formation of life at the atomic level, evidence for intelligent design.
But it's science, so I'm probably full of sh it.
@sonhouse said
In spiritual because it seems there is evidence our brains work using quantum mechanics rules.
I put it here because maybe if that is true, there could be connections like quantum entanglement, maybe that could explain things like telepathy and spiritual feelings.
Here is one piece about that in Nature mag.
https://www.nature.com/articles/440611a
One passage therein has caught my eye:
Why should evolution have turned to quantum computation, so fickle and capricious, if classical neural-network computations are evidently entirely sufficient to deal with the problems encountered by nervous systems?
The word "evidently" is loaded here. We do not know in the least that "classical neural-network computations" are in fact sufficient to deal with problems encountered by a nervous system. What problems would those be, anyway? Admittedly I skimmed much of the article, so I may have missed something. But my point is that we do not know whether other influences are in play that inform nervous systems how to behave in different situations.
Here's a problem I think about now and then: philosophical zombies. A philosophical zombie is an entity that in every way looks and acts like, say, a human, but has absolutely no conscious awareness. Physicalists (a.k.a. materialists) assume that consciousness is just an epiphenomenon emergent from arrangements of particles. That is, consciousness is sort of an accidental development. But is this assumption reasonable?
Biological evolution is entirely in the business of rearranging particles to give rise to speciation. So, given this, I would say that somehow a leap has been made somewhere. Human philosophical zombies should surely have evolved instead of the likes of us, since it is only sufficient that humans behave a certain way to be the evolutionary "success" that they are today. Having an introspectively accessible conscious inner life would seem to be superfluous.
I think there is another way we should be looking at this problem that makes more sense from a metaphysical as well as biological perspective, but I'll hold off on it for the moment.
Another interesting passage:
It is far more likely that the material basis of consciousness can be understood within a purely neurobiological framework, without invoking any quantum-mechanical deus ex machina.
It seems strange that, ex hypothesi, it should be assumed that neurobiological phenomena just don't need no stinkin' quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is at the foundation of physical reality, and while one can talk about decoherence and quantum phenomena "averaging out" in larger physical systems so as to result in classical behavior, we have no real good reason to believe that this is what happens in nervous systems. We're still apes poking at a black box and hooting and gibbering about the mystery of it all, so we should not be making broad-sweeping pronouncements about what's going on in the box before it is opened more than a crack. Sir Roger Penrose is right to keep an open mind about the possibility that quantum phenomena influence how brains work.
Frankly, what we have here are physicalists not only denying the possibility that consciousness could be a fundamental aspect of reality that brains filter, process, and focus (called the Filter Theory), but also denying that a well-researched fundamental physical theory, namely quantum mechanics, could be of any importance to the problem at hand. It starts to become understandable how neuroscientists have utterly failed to explain even a scintilla of the phenomenon known as consciousness to this day. All we have are a raft of neural correlates of consciousness worked out.
@Soothfast saidYou guys are smart. Maybe even smart enough. I know I'm not.
One passage therein has caught my eye:Why should evolution have turned to quantum computation, so fickle and capricious, if classical neural-network computations are evidently entirely sufficient to deal with the problems encountered by nervous systems?
The word "evidently" is loaded here. We do not know in the least that "classical neural-netwo ...[text shortened]... consciousness to this day. All we have are a raft of neural correlates of consciousness worked out.
@josephws
In quantum mechanics, two particles or photons can be 'entangled' which means they have exactly the same status like energy, spin, temperature and such, and if one of them gets changed, say a photon ramming into it, the other one reacts also even if it is a light year apart.
I was just thinking if quantum effects gives us consciousness maybe two brains could entangle themselves maybe from love of each other, not sure, but some way they could become entangled and maybe explain why some people faced with the disappearance of a loved one, they say SHE IS ALIVE, somehow feeling the state of the loved one.
@sonhouse saidI find the phenomenon of consciousness itself to be fascinating, and so don't really spend much time considering paranormal phenomena. But if the physical arises within consciousness (empirically coherent) rather than the reverse (a prejudiced abstraction), I should think that increases the chances that certain paranormal phenomena are real.
@josephws
In quantum mechanics, two particles or photons can be 'entangled' which means they have exactly the same status like energy, spin, temperature and such, and if one of them gets changed, say a photon ramming into it, the other one reacts also even if it is a light year apart.
I was just thinking if quantum effects gives us consciousness maybe two brains could ent ...[text shortened]... the disappearance of a loved one, they say SHE IS ALIVE, somehow feeling the state of the loved one.
But the signal-to-noise ratio out there on the subject of the paranormal is diminishingly low. There's so much New Age nonsense out there, not to mention the old-school nonsense such as astrology.
There's also the question of how to test for the paranormal in a controlled setting. Paranormal events may be acausal (at least from the perspective of our 4-dimensional spacetime physic), and be manifestations of, say, some kind of Jungian synchronicity that points to something semantically significant. Such significance cannot be jimmied up on cue in a lab, probably.
Synchronicity is a concept that Carl Gustav Jung and the Nobelian physicist Wolfgang Pauli corresponded about at length sometime in the 1950s. Just spitballing here, since I'm not well-read on the topic, but I'd say that quantum entanglement could be a very simple kind of synchronicity phenomenon, though Jung had in mind all manners of "significant coincidences" encountered by humans in the course of life. Yes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but other times a coincidence seems to be something more than due to mere chance.
Right now I'd say there is one paranormal phenomenon known to exist, and that is consciousness itself. Emergentism, which is the (metaphysical!) notion that a pile of dead particles can become self-aware when arranged a certain way, is to this day just a genie apparating from a lamp; a magical notion about as indefensible as the belief that a planet in a certain constellation can influence events on Earth in some meaningful way.
Bernard Carr is a physicist of repute who is well-known for his fascination with the paranormal. If you go to
https://www.youtube.com/@essentiafoundation/videos
you can find a lot of videos featuring Dr. Carr talking about the subject, some of which include discussions on the nature of time itself.
@Soothfast
Yeah and now the word on the street is time itself is an illusion. Sure looks real when your time clock goes to zero though🙂
@Soothfast saidI tend to agree with this.
Synchronicity is a concept that Carl Gustav Jung and the Nobelian physicist Wolfgang Pauli corresponded about at length sometime in the 1950s. Just spitballing here, since I'm not well-read on the topic, but I'd say that quantum entanglement could be a very simple kind of synchronicity phenomenon, though Jung had in mind all manners of "significant coincidences" encounte ...[text shortened]... r is just a cigar, but other times a coincidence seems to be something more than due to mere chance.
I find Jung's concepts of synchronicity and the collective unconscious fascinating.
Proverbs 8:1-36
1 Is not wisdom calling out?
Is not discernment raising its voice?
2 On the heights along the road,
It takes its position at the crossroads.
3 Next to the gates leading into the city,
At the entrances of the doorways,
It keeps crying out loudly:
4 “To you, O people, I am calling;
I raise my voice to everyone.
5 You inexperienced ones, learn shrewdness
You stupid ones, acquire an understanding heart.
6 Listen, for what I say is important,
My lips speak what is right;
7 For my mouth softly utters truth,
And my lips detest what is wicked.
8 All the sayings of my mouth are righteous.
None of them are twisted or crooked.
9 They are all straightforward to the discerning
And right to those who have found knowledge.
10 Take my discipline instead of silver,
And knowledge rather than the finest gold,
11 For wisdom is better than corals;
All other desirable things cannot compare to it.
12 I, wisdom, dwell together with shrewdness;
I have found knowledge and thinking ability.
13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad.
I hate self-exaltation and pride and the evil way and perverse speech.
14 I possess good advice and practical wisdom;
Understanding and power are mine.
15 By me kings keep reigning,
And high officials decree righteousness.
16 By me princes keep ruling,
And nobles judge in righteousness.
17 I love those loving me,
And those seeking me will find me.
18 Riches and glory are with me,
Lasting wealth and righteousness.
19 My fruitage is better than gold, even refined gold,
And what I produce is better than the finest silver.
20 I walk in the path of righteousness,
In the middle of the pathways of justice;
21 I give a rich inheritance to those who love me,
And I fill up their storehouses.
22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
The earliest of his achievements of long ago.
23 From ancient times I was installed,
From the start, from times earlier than the earth.
24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth,
When there were no springs overflowing with water.
25 Before the mountains were set in place,
Before the hills, I was brought forth,
26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields
Or the first clods of earth’s soil.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there;
When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters,
28 When he established the clouds above,
When he founded the fountains of the deep,
29 When he set a decree for the sea
That its waters should not pass beyond his order,
When he established the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;
I rejoiced before him all the time;
31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth,
And I was especially fond of the sons of men.
32 And now, my sons, listen to me;
Yes, happy are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to discipline and become wise,
And never neglect it.
34 Happy is the man who listens to me
By coming early to my doors day by day,
By waiting next to my doorposts;
35 For the one finding me will find life,
And he receives approval from Jehovah.
36 But the one who ignores me harms himself,
And those who hate me love death.”
Just seeing what thoughts anyone here has on these scriptures within the context of this thread? And another question, who is this speaking?
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@galveston75 saidI don’t immediately see anything in that NWT version of the text which is related to this thread.
Just seeing what thoughts anyone here has on these scriptures within the context of this thread? And another question, who is this speaking?
Perhaps you could share your thoughts on it?
And it wasn’t spoken, it is generally accepted to have been written by King Solomon.
@divegeester
Verses 22-31 could not apply to any humans.
And as far as the rest of these scriptures..of course you don't understand.
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@galveston75 saidSo just a claim by you about your own cult’s version of the Bible, a non explanation and a little insult.
@divegeester
Verses 22-31 could not apply to any humans.
And as far as the rest of these scriptures..of course you don't understand.
Got it 😄
@divegeester saidSeriously? Your bible as well as most others say the same thing in those verses ( except where God's name Jehovah has been removed ). And you are calling me out for insulting???? "Insulting everyone here seems to be your life's purpose
So just a claim by you about your own cult’s version of the Bible, a non explanation and a little insult.
Got it 😄
So now going back to my comment, do you have any explanation as to what I'm pointing out? Two things, so give it an honest try if you can. If you can't just do your best...
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@galveston75 saidYou’re not pointing anything out, you made an assertion.
So now going back to my comment, do you have any explanation as to what I'm pointing out? Two things, so give it an honest try if you can. If you can't just do your best...
What on earth is your point?
@galveston75 saidThe speaker is Wisdom.
Proverbs 8:1-36
Just seeing what thoughts anyone here has on these scriptures within the context of this thread? And another question, who is this speaking?