26 May 14
Originally posted by FMFThen Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
Thanks. I'm in a good place now. I was convinced I was in a good place for many years as a Christian. But I am in a far better place now ~ now that I have unencumbered myself from all that. 🙂
(John 8:31-32 NKJV)
26 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyStating categorically that someone is saved and can never lose their salvation is nothing but a LIE, A FALSITY, AN UNTRUTH.
Stating categorical biblical truth unequivocally is never tantamount to 'judging' though some will squirm with deflections.
Only God knows these things. The reason is that only God knows the heart and mind of people. YOU DO NOT!
By the way, you should be concerned with contradictions which FMF identified.
26 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Renunciation of Faith in Christ Thread 159413
Stating categorically that someone is saved and can never lose their salvation is nothing but a LIE, A FALSITY, AN UNTRUTH.
Only God knows these things. The reason is that only God knows the heart and mind of people. YOU DO NOT!
By the way, you should be concerned with contradictions which FMF identified.
God disciplines His children in love but never abandons them. Even under the pressure of intense discipline, God graciously continues to supply all that is needed to sustain their lives. Neither warning nor intensive discipline ever implies that God has forsaken His own children [anyone who has believed in Jesus Christ for eternal salvation]. Even renunciation of an earlier point in time faith in Christ does not effect the believer's eternal status as a member of the Royal Family of God:
"It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him [at the moment of an individual's faith in Christ the baptism of the Holy Spirit identifies the believer with Christ in His death], we will also live with Him [eternal salvation is now an irrevocable and unassailable fact]; 12 If we endure [persevere in daily obedience to the commands of God as this obedience to divine authority puts the power of God into effect in the believer's life], we will also reign with Him [as an eternal reward]; If we deny Him [refuse to utilize divine assets], He also will deny us [these unclaimed eternal rewards]; 13 If we are faithless [spend our lives as immature believers not growing in grace and acquiring the mind of Christ], He remains faithful [the unproductive believer is still eternally saved], for He cannot deny Himself." 2 Timothy 2:11-13 New American Standard Bible
At the moment of salvation, God imputes His absolute righteousness to every believer and having done so declares him/her righteous or justified. (Romans 3:21-28) If God subsequently excluded any believer from eternal salvation, He would have to deny Himself and contradict His own pronouncement of justification. A believer's salvation is anchored in the essence of God.
When God provided salvation [by faith alone in Christ alone] His omniscience knew that believers would be easily distracted. He isn't shocked if and when members of the Royal Family of God ignore their own royal birthright and proudly state they've renounced it. Other believers may be appalled and shocked by the disobedience and unfaithfulness of members of the Royal Family but the sins that shock them have already been judged at Christ's Crucifixion. God is never compelled or forced to alter or change His perfect Plan because a believer demonstrates the foolishness God always knew would be exhibited. God's plan is far greater than human ignorance and arrogance, sin and failure; God's grace is immutable. Divine discipline doesn't ever cancel salvation. God's sole purpose in discipline is to awaken and train Royal Family Members to obey His plan.
26 May 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou are hopeless.
[b]Renunciation of Faith in Christ Thread 159413
God disciplines His children in love but never abandons them. Even under the pressure of intense discipline, God graciously continues to supply all that is needed to sustain their lives. Neither warning nor intensive discipline ever implies that God has forsaken His own childre ...[text shortened]... ] God's sole purpose in discipline is to awaken and train Royal Family Members to obey His plan.[/b]
27 May 14
2 edits
Originally posted by FMFI know that Christ, Jesus is real. And I know that what is written, the Bible is alive and real too. But it wasn't my knowledge of either that saved me, it was God that saved me.
So you believe that one "cannot find God in a church or a religion". I can relate to that. Does it mean you dismiss Christ and Christian beliefs? And Islamic beliefs and Hinduism too? You are a theist with no religion, like me?
27 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by PudgenikAh, so when you said "you cannot find God in a church or a religion" you were not being straight with me. Your religion is in fact Christianity, right? 😉
I know that Christ, Jesus is real. And I know that what is written, the Bible is alive and real too. But it wasn't my knowledge of either that saved me, it was God that saved me.
28 May 14
Originally posted by FMFWhy do you always take what i say out of context? I stated that "in fact it is not us who finds God, but it is God who finds us". This should have answered you last two questions.
Ah, so when you said "you cannot find God in a church or a religion" you were not being straight with me. Your religion is in fact Christianity, right? 😉
But in typical FMF fashion, you pick at a phrase to make some piont that only you understand.
To re answer this last question, no one finds God. Finding God implies that we have some magical power over God. The reality is, we have no power over God. The reality is, that God chooses to find us through our love, as He Himself is love.
I did not find God, He found me.
28 May 14
Originally posted by PudgenikNot really. In one post you sought to distance yourself [and what you were telling me] from religion and then in your very next post you acknowledge that what you were telling was rooted in your religion.
Why do you always take what i say out of context? I stated that "in fact it is not us who finds God, but it is God who finds us". This should have answered you last two questions.
But in typical FMF fashion, you pick at a phrase to make some piont that only you understand.
With the disclaimer that I have only read the first couple pages of this thread------
KellyJay makes two assertions that strike me as strange bedfellows of one another:
* I can be in error on doctrine.
* I have the Spirit of God; I walk with Him and belong to Him.
Is it that the Spirit of God doesn't particularly care how accurately you are espousing His eternal truths? Or is it that He tries to correct you, but it somehow gets garbled in the transmission, such that you goof some of it up? Or is it that you are guilty of "leaning upon your own understanding," even though scripture warns you not to do that? Or something else?
Would He honor a prayer from you along these lines? "Lord, in Your Holy Word You promised that I can do all things through Christ. I ask that You purge me of all theological error from this day forward, in the name of Christ. Let me never again be guilty of giving false answers to sincere questions from skeptics. Amen."
28 May 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIVery good point.
With the disclaimer that I have only read the first couple pages of this thread------
KellyJay makes two assertions that strike me as strange bedfellows of one another:
* I can be in error on doctrine.
* I have the Spirit of God; I walk with Him and belong to Him.
Is it that the Spirit of God doesn't particularly care how accurately you are ...[text shortened]... me never again be guilty of giving false answers to sincere questions from skeptics. Amen."[/i]
29 May 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac III acknowledge I have limitations, and I count on God to see me through
With the disclaimer that I have only read the first couple pages of this thread------
KellyJay makes two assertions that strike me as strange bedfellows of one another:
* I can be in error on doctrine.
* I have the Spirit of God; I walk with Him and belong to Him.
Is it that the Spirit of God doesn't particularly care how accurately you are ...[text shortened]... me never again be guilty of giving false answers to sincere questions from skeptics. Amen."[/i]
all my errors not just doctrine. I strive to follow God's Spirit as He leads
me in the ways I should go and teaches me. If you believe you can be
error free, you should start a church I'm sure people would love to follow
you. I'd just as soon point others to God, He can work out what they
need as they need it.
Kelly
29 May 14
Originally posted by KellyJayAre you at peace with the idea that what He works out for other believers could be contradictory to what He works out for you? Just as an example (since I have known Christians who say tithing was only for Old Testament times), might He tell you that you need to tithe ten percent, even while telling certain other modern Christians that they do not need to tithe anything?
... He can work out what they need as they need it...
(In answering, keep in mind that your holy book maintains that God "is no respecter of persons." I take that to mean that He wouldn't treat one human a certain way, and another human a different way.)