28 Oct 16
Originally posted by sonshipSo prove it.It is at this point I start calling people fool. moron, idiot and other appropriate names.
Then that is YOUR weakness.
That is YOUR lack of the fruit of [b]"self-control", a fruit of the Spirit.
Haven't you read Galatians 5 ?
[quote] So instead of doing that I will back off and leave you in your stupid ...[text shortened]... ing His divine Spirit into and through man.
Are you sure you want to call this "stupidity" ?[/b]
28 Oct 16
Originally posted by Rajk999My thoughts and observations only.
Is there something or someone that makes you think you have to right or authority to admonish anyone. I have to ask because in this forum you have no credibility or authority. Maybe in your local community they massage your balls and lick your a$$, and you feel like a king but here you are just a regular nobody. Maybe you need to get off your high horse and ...[text shortened]... ng the commandments of Christ. That is the only thing that will get you into the Kingdom of God.
I am not foolish enough to believe that any lasting friendships can be formulated in such a place as the Spirituality Forum of Red Hot Pawn, but I have been wrong before and may very well be this time, but I am leaning towards no. I certainly don't know all that goes on in peoples lives behind the scenes nor do I want to, but the backbiting, name calling and downright nastiness among those who call themselves Christians is a little much and there seems to be little to no common ground with regards to God. It is no wonder that people that don't believe in God have no interest in God! If God is love where is it exemplified here? We are only tapping on plastic buttons in a virtual word that exists everywhere, but pull the electricity and it exists nowhere. It is not that hard to be nice to other Christians and brothers (Christians I am speaking of), by nice I mean the opposite of what is common here, in the least it should be an easy thing to do, there is no real investment into others lives.
I am not wanting to step on toes and certainly not you Raj, I just picked a post and replied, so this is not directed to you personally because I responded to your reply.
I have stated previously that I think Raj brings some things to the table, good things to consider. Sonship likewise has many good things to say and has a passion for what he believes, he certainly puts in the time. 🙂 Divegester, by all means has much to say and ponder, I take away. For me, it's the little bits of information, thoughts, truths that I learn from and they are here, things that I have a hard time with... I pass over, the nuggets I keep. There is an old saying that applies to us all, Garbage in Garbage out.
This latest exchange of nastiness between Sonship and Raj (professing Christians) is a little much, and to be honest I am a little embarrassed and bothered as a Christian, which is why I am even bothering with this post. On one hand we are suggesting someone to have the spirit of antichrist, the other is just degrading with his comments, as a Christian I don't know what to say or think. No question that emotions are running high on both sides.
Then there are agitators that I think have no other purpose than to stir things up for whatever reason, and are sometimes successful at it. I think most are adults here but there is some childishness behavior going on and that is sad.
Some are going to balk and perhaps throw negative comments my way, have at it. As I said above Garbage in Garbage out, but this one thing is true with regards to walking out the Christian life.
Romans 10:5-13English Standard Version (ESV)
The Message of Salvation to All
5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
If Christians here believe this and work out their own salvation, who is to say otherwise? Only God can judge that individual.
I hope Christians can hear the heart, I hope agitators would think about a thing or two.
Maybe this is all for naught and this is just a playground... who knows. My thoughts only.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by leunammi
This latest exchange of nastiness between Sonship and Raj (professing Christians) is a little much, and to be honest I am a little embarrassed and bothered as a Christian, which is why I am even bothering with this post. On one hand we are suggesting someone to have the spirit of antichrist, the other is just degrading with his comments, as a Christian I don't know what to say or think. No question that emotions are running high on both sides.
I would not say "nastiness" motivates my comments.
I would neither say over indulgence in emotion plays a part either.
I wrote that I dealt with this spirit of antichrist for too long. And you are bothered that I would say that. Well, let me explain that. I actually wrote a whole thread on "a spirit of antichrist" some years ago.
So I will briefly explain that my usage of that phrase is not derogatory per se. It means -
To teach that some aspect of what Jesus Christ is in His complete nature is denied is a spirit of antichrist.
IE. A person does not believe the Jesus is God come in the flesh - a spirit of antichrist is influence him.
A person does not believe Christ died a redemptive death but only died the death of a martyr - a spirit of antichrist is involved.
A person does not believe Christ is the Spirit - a spirit of antichrist is influential.
To teach against any aspect of the full meaning of Christ's Person can be the influence of a spirit of antichrist. It is to teach Instead of Christ in SOME aspect of the complete revelation concerning Christ.
Now in the epistle of First John the Apostle John uses the phrase specifically for the teacher who did not believe Jesus came in the flesh. These teachers said Jesus was too good to have been physical. Do they admire Jesus ? Yes they do. But in their incomplete presentation they deny SOME aspect of the total revelation concerning Christ.
In principle, the spirit of antichrist could be operating in OTHER heretical thoughts as well. In other words, how John used " the spirit of antichrist " was representative but not exhaustive.
If I as a Christian who loves Jesus Christ, deny the nature of Christ is SOME aspect contrary to the New Testament, I TOO could be influenced by the "spirit of antichrist".
Do you understand now how I use "spirit of antichrist" ?
It does not mean that a person IS the Antichrist.
It means that anyone who denies SOME aspect of the total revelation of the nature of Christ, could be under the persuasion of a "spirit of antichrist".
Strictly speaking the term "antichrist" means Instead of or OTHER THAN Christ. It may carry the meaning AGAINST Christ too. But its main meaning, I think, is "OTHER THAN [or INSTEAD OF] ... Christ".
And even a Christian teacher may be influenced by a spirit of antichrist causing them to undercut the full teaching of Who and What Christ is as presented in the New Testament.
Now what did I say concerning poster Rajk999, who purports to be a teacher of the New Testament ? I said something like ... "I have dealt with this spirit of antichrist long enough ..." or something close to that.
And I have.
28 Oct 16
Originally posted by sonshipFor every action, there usually is an equal and opposite reaction. You two guys feed into each other, say things that are sometimes not so pleasant... and it looks bad to the onlooker, maybe it even causes confusion for the seeker. This does not show love, which is by the way that the world will know... by love.
[quote] This latest exchange of nastiness between Sonship and Raj (professing Christians) is a little much, and to be honest I am a little embarrassed and bothered as a Christian, which is why I am even bothering with this post. On one hand we are suggesting someone to have the spirit of antichrist, the other is just degrading with his comments, as a Christi ...[text shortened]... with this spirit of antichrist long enough ..." or something close to that.
And I have.[/b]
I like a lot of what you post, not all but a lot, keep it up. Ignore the naysayers, agitators and those just not interested. Engage those that truly want to dialog, ignore the rest, who has time for all of the ugly stuff.
This is the jist of my comments.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
28 Oct 16
2 edits
Originally posted by leunammi
I like a lot of what you post, not all but a lot, keep it up. Ignore the naysayers, agitators and those just not interested. Engage those that truly want to dialog,
I do try. But then people say "Stop writing these long monologues ! "
Thanks.
Oh, I could be wrong. But if you check at random some 20 or so exhanges between me and that poster, I think you'll find that I was very civil with him.
"A slave of the Lord must not contend, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, bearing with wrong, in meekness correcting those who oppose ... etc."
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121323
Originally posted by sonshipYou are certainly an interesting character here sonship and I enjoy our exchanges and even the spats. But it has to be said that despite your considerable time investment into your posts, you are a poor forum communicator.
...But then people say "Stop writing these long monologues ! "
Originally posted by leunammiThis is the second time you are posting this stuff. Maybe you a expecting and difference response but ... No .. its the same.
My thoughts and observations only.
I am not foolish enough to believe that any lasting friendships can be formulated in such a place as the Spirituality Forum of Red Hot Pawn, but I have been wrong before and may very well be this time, but I am leaning towards no. I certainly don't know all that goes on in peoples lives behind the scenes nor do I want ...[text shortened]... .
Maybe this is all for naught and this is just a playground... who knows. My thoughts only.
First I dont dwell on what people say about me, partly because i dont care about that, but mostly because I am focused on more important matters ie doctrine of Christ and how it relates to the modern Christian church. If you are bothered about these heated exchanges then you are in the wrong place especially it is going to be detrimental to your personal life. You need to work on that.
Next I cannot seem to understand what about sonships you seem to taken up with. Is it:
- the length , are you fooled by that?
- what about his sick doctrine of eternal torment for all of humanity [except Christians], are you impressed with that?
- maybe you like his doctrine that preaches about not adhering to the commandments of Jesus .. you like that?
- or how about his claim that mouth worship and dead faith leads to eternal life?
As for you quote from Romans, you have bolded the wrong part. I would be happy to discuss it further although I doubt that you really care about what Jesus said and preached.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
28 Oct 16
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterOh, I'm not all that bad.
You are certainly an interesting character here sonship and I enjoy our exchanges and even the spats. But it has to be said that despite your considerable time investment into your posts, you are a poor forum communicator.
I mean, I could improve - ie. typos, bad English construction at times, silly spelling errors, misunderstanding people's thoughts.
Let me test to see how well I communicated on the thread The Diagnosis of Romans 7,8
Tell me if you GOT it about the four laws there.
What are the four laws I said Paul used to analyze the human moral situation and remedy with mankind ?
Write just a brief word to show me I did or did not COMMUNICATE, if you would.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29756
28 Oct 16
Originally posted by sonship'spirit of antichrist'
[quote] This latest exchange of nastiness between Sonship and Raj (professing Christians) is a little much, and to be honest I am a little embarrassed and bothered as a Christian, which is why I am even bothering with this post. On one hand we are suggesting someone to have the spirit of antichrist, the other is just degrading with his comments, as a Christi ...[text shortened]... with this spirit of antichrist long enough ..." or something close to that.
And I have.[/b]
I think this is only a short walk away from saying all unbelievers in the Christian faith are influenced by the devil. Is this the path you are taking us down?
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121323
28 Oct 16
Originally posted by sonshipSo you ignored me saying "it's not necessarily about the content".
Oh, I'm not all that bad.
I mean, I could improve - ie. typos, bad English construction at times, silly spelling errors, misunderstanding people's thoughts.
Let me test to see how well I communicated on the thread [b]The Diagnosis of Romans 7,8
Tell me if you GOT it about the four laws there.
What are the four laws I said Paul used to ...[text shortened]... nkind ?
Write just a brief word to show me I did or did not COMMUNICATE, if you would.[/b]
😞
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'spirit of antichrist'
I think this is only a short walk away from saying all unbelievers in the Christian faith are influenced by the devil. Is this the path you are taking us down?
All people born into the world are influenced by the Devil.
No Christian can hardly say that at some time he is not influenced by the Devil.
Perhaps I could refine the usage of the word "the spirit of antichrist", as the Apostle John used it, to indicate not so much ignorance, as in not yet being well taught or enlightened, to mean to actively fight for and teach.
" Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but prove the spirits whether they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
No, I would not say every unbeliever is a false prophet that has gone out into the world.
No, i would not say that the seeker or Christian who is unclear about something still concerning Jesus Christ's nature, is a false prophet with the spirit of antichrist.
Going on -
"In this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come int the flesh is of God, And every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God; and this is the spirit of antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming into the world.
1.) The wrong teaching of the Docetists that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh, is the specific teaching John refers to. This was a branch of gnostic teaching which believed in Jesus but said He was too good to have actually been physical.
I think the error is only representative. I don't believe this is the ONLY antichrist teaching the Apostle could be referring to.
This, perhaps, could be confirmed by John saying the "many antichrists have come" (1:18). This may mean [b]"many" kinds of false teachers had come. We could not say that only the Docetists were false teachers concerning the Gospel.
2.) The active promotion and aggressive teaching of this error, I think, comes under the condemnation of the apostle as being, "the spirit of antichrist".
The fact that a benigh ignorance is not meant, but rather an active aggressive promotion and teaching of apostates is evident to me in the following words.
" ... even now many antichrists have come; whereby we know that it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out that they might be manifesteed that they all are not of us." (2:18,19)
I would understand mainly that John is saying they were false apostles. They were false teachers. A degree more serious than just partially taught Christians still immature in understanding, I think is meant.
They went OUT from the team of apostles or teachers. It reminds me of Paul's warning to the Ephesians elders, that some from among them would become fierce wolves after his [Paul's] departure.
Going on John says:
" You are of God, little children; and you have overcome them because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world." (v.4)
The indwellng Christ, the Christ who lives WITHIN the believers in a most real and subjective experiencial way, is their safeguard. The world and the wordly philosophy is strong. But it can never be stronger than the Christ Who has been imparted into the innermost being of the believers.
"the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)
He became in resurrection a divine life imparting Spirit to dispense the Person of Jesus Christ in His "pneumatic" form INTO the being of the believers. This is greater than any power or influence in the world.
The regeneration of believers, receiving Christ into them, is something that the world cannot give and the world cannot take away.
A bit further -
"They are [the teachers under the influence of the spirit of antichrist] are of the world, therefore they speak out of the world, and the world hears them.
We are of God; he who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us; From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception." (vs.5,6)
Though it is a spiritual matter, what the spirit of antichrist teaches is completely the WORLDLY philodophy. It is fortified with the interests of the world, the attitude of the world, the assumptions, speculations, and principle philosophy of the world under Satan's influence.
Just because it is apparently somewhat related to theology does not mean it is not of the world. It is set on the priorities of the world and at least part of the world has its ear opened to it.
A Christian is not automatically exempt from being influenced by the spirit of antichrist, if he or she promotes, actually aggressively asserts in teaching SOME subtraction of the total revelation of the nature of Christ.
This may include things like:
1.) Christ is good but He is not God incarnate.
2.) Christ was full of love and sacrifice, but He did not die a redemptive death.
3.) Christ was very good and wise, but He did not rise from the dead.
4.) Christ was very good and we should listen to Him, but He is not coming again.
5.) Christ is not the Spirit.
6.) Christ is not the embodiment of the Father.
7.) Christ in not available today to live in us.
8.) Christ is not the Judge of the living and the dead.
9.) Christ is not the Savior but just a good moral teacher.
10.) Christ is only for the Americans.
11.) Christ is only for the White race.
12.) Christ is only for the Jews.
13.) Christ is only for Black people.
14.) Christ came again in the form of Mohammed the prophet.
IE. He is not the unique Son of God.
15.) Christ does not have the fullness of God dwelling bodily in Him.
16.) Christ was not the Creator.
17.) Christ did not become a man in the flesh.
18.) Christ did not have a relationship with His Father. He is not the Son.
19.) Christ does not have a mystical body - the Body of Christ.
20.) Christ is not the King of the kingdom of God.
21.) Christ does not reign forever.
22.) Christ will no longer be a man in eternity.
23.) Christ is not God.
These are just some representative false teachings which could be characterized as the teaching of the spirit of antchrist regardless of WHO is doing the teaching.
28 Oct 16
Originally posted by Rajk999sigh...
This is the second time you are posting this stuff. Maybe you a expecting and difference response but ... No .. its the same.
First I dont dwell on what people say about me, partly because i dont care about that, but mostly because I am focused on more important matters ie doctrine of Christ and how it relates to the modern Christian church. If you are ...[text shortened]... to discuss it further although I doubt that you really care about what Jesus said and preached.
First I am not taken up about anything with sonship, no more than I am with you. There are aspects of what I see with both as with others that I like, the things I don't... I let go by. Not a one of us has figured it all out. You brought up eternal torment. I know what it says in the bible, I know what you say, I know what sonships say (or at leat what you say he believes), I know what many others say, I know what people say, teach, in my own life; I am not convinced in any way; and that is ok. But I will say this, I understand separation from God, and what a hellish predicament that is and it is not something I want or for others. So please, don't say such things to me because you don't know me or what I think.
I am not really impressed with what anyone says in a public forum, but sometimes I can get valuable information, nuggets if you will that intrigue me and I run with it, this is not the place to be impressed with such things.
You make many claims about sonship and others with regards to how they should or shouldn't live, how they do or don't live. I would say this to you, unless you know anyone here personally and are a part of their life, YOU don't know... you just think you do and it is not fair of you to make such statements.
As for the Roman's scripture, I think I will leave it as. It means what it says and I used it in the way that I wanted to, I do not need your correction or for you to explain anything to me, I have that figured out; if I want to know I will ask those for whom I trust and respect. Your response tells me that you have missed the point of my post, but I am not really surprised.
28 Oct 16
Originally posted by Rajk999
This is the second time you are posting this stuff. Maybe you a expecting and difference response but ... No .. its the same.
First I dont dwell on what people say about me, partly because i dont care about that, but mostly because I am focused on more important matters ie doctrine of Christ and how it relates to the modern Christian church. If you are ...[text shortened]... to discuss it further although I doubt that you really care about what Jesus said and preached.
This is the second time you are posting this stuff. Maybe you a expecting and difference response but ... No .. its the same.
Well we all do repeat ourselves don't we? You are no exception.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by divegeesterI must have thought, when I read that, "It is content that is most important in communication here. "
So you ignored me saying "it's not necessarily about the content".
😞
I didn't think "only content". But I did think "most important is content."
Do you feel little graphic faces are most important or something ?
I don't pay a whole lot of attention to those.