Spirituality
15 Sep 15
24 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneBeen trying to tell KJ that for some time but without success.
[b]What is your point? Those that have God's Spirit belong to Him and are obeying Him.
No. The points are just as I stated them:
[quote]Jesus says that only those who KEEP Jesus' word (commandments) love Him and receive the Holy Spirit (spirit of Truth).
Jesus says that only those who do the will of His Father ([KEEP] His word) will enter "the ...[text shortened]... ourself how well Jesus KEPT His father's commandments. This is the standard that Jesus requires.[/b]
Here is a verse that says that the words of Christ is spirit and life.
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
25 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI said I didn't care that there was a disagreement between scholars due to the fact I believe
You seem to keep missing the point which is the following:
"The truth here is that in there is disagreement amongst biblical scholars as to whether or not it is Jesus speaking in John 3:17-21. You seem to take it as a given that it is Jesus speaking."
It was just a minor point. It's no big deal if you don't get it.
that Jesus was speaking. There was nothing about our discussion I wasn't getting.
25 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI'll have a reply when I have more time.
[b]What is your point? Those that have God's Spirit belong to Him and are obeying Him.
No. The points are just as I stated them:Jesus says that only those who KEEP Jesus' word (commandments) love Him and receive the Holy Spirit (spirit of Truth).[/b]
Jesus says that only those who do the will of His Father ([KEEP] His word) will enter "the ...[text shortened]... uote]Matthew 5
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Thanks for the thoughtful post.
25 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI do believe as you are describing events that we would be earning our salvation by being
[b]What is your point? Those that have God's Spirit belong to Him and are obeying Him.
No. The points are just as I stated them:Jesus says that only those who KEEP Jesus' word (commandments) love Him and receive the Holy Spirit (spirit of Truth).[/b]
Jesus says that only those who do the will of His Father ([KEEP] His word) will enter "the ...[text shortened]... uote]Matthew 5
48“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
good enough. While as I have been saying Jesus saves us, then we are given God’s
Spirit. The scripture you quoted Jesus is telling us in Him we will bear fruit, He is the vine
we are the branch. We cannot bear fruit unless we belong to Him and are abiding in
Him, this puts the onus on us belonging to Him. While with Him again you will be obeying
Him, while you are with Him you will be keeping His commandments.
Jesus is our Savior, without Him we can do nothing and through Him we receive the Holy
Spirit of God. Without the Spirit of God we do not belong to God! We are granted the
Spirit as we are adopted into God’s family where we call God father. While in Christ are
all of these blessings ours, they are not something we earn He destined us for adoption
through Jesus Christ, in Christ we have redemption through His blood not our efforts for
the forgiveness of our sins.
Ephesians 1:3-7
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 just as he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before him in love. 5 He destined us for adoption as his children through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace that he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace 8 that he lavished on us.
The doctrine you are promoting about just the righteous by the things we do is on full
display in a story Jesus tells. We are not saved by our works as you are promoting, but
we are saved through faith not of our own doing no matter how much you say it so that no
one can boast. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared
beforehand to be our way of life. It isn’t that we are not going to be doing good works, that
will be our way of life in Christ.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— 9 not the result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.
Luke 18: 9-14
9 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and regarded others with contempt: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people: thieves, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of all my income.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even look up to heaven, but was beating his breast and saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his home justified rather than the other; for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Everything about our salvation is through God, we cannot even create the faith we need
for God's grace it is a gift of God. So we even have to go to God for that, He puts the
desire in us and we respond, it is all on God not us. We obey once He calls us, but the
works of making us righteous is all Jesus Christ not our works.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJay
I do believe as you are describing events that we would be earning our salvation by being
good enough. While as I have been saying Jesus saves us, then we are given God’s
Spirit. The scripture you quoted Jesus is telling us in Him we will bear fruit, He is the vine
we are the branch. We cannot bear fruit unless we belong to Him and are abiding in
Him, t ...[text shortened]... obey once He calls us, but the
works of making us righteous is all Jesus Christ not our works.
John 15
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned...10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Jesus says that only those who KEEP Jesus' commandments as HE kept his Father's commandments abide in Jesus' love. Ask yourself how well Jesus KEPT His father's commandments. This is the standard that Jesus requires to abide in His love. In John 15:10 Jesus says who does and does not abide in His love - only those who KEEP his commandments as HE kept his Father's commandments abide in His love.
In John 15:6 Jesus says that those who do not abide in Jesus and are "cast into the fire" and "are burned". Those would be those who do not KEEP his commandments as He KEPT HIs Father's commandments per John 15:10
Can you directly address the words that Jesus spoke here in John 15:6 and 10? The actual words that Jesus spoke here in John 15:6 and 10?
26 Sep 15
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Yes, it's marvelous how in John 6:26-63, Jesus makes clear how so much ultimately boils down to the importance of His words. With that in mind, it's unfortunate how few are willing to read His words in context and allow them to speak for themselves. Instead they seem to primarily seek to find ways to twist His words to fit their dogma. When they do that, they can't 'hear' what He's saying.
Been trying to tell KJ that for some time but without success.
Here is a verse that says that the words of Christ is spirit and life.
[b]Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. [/b]
What's also marvelous are the interrelationships between John 6:26-63, John 8:31-36 and Matthew 26:26-28. You should take a look if you haven't already.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYea, sure....if anyone does not abide in him will dry up and be burned.John 15
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned...10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
Jesus says that only those who KEEP Jesus' commandm ...[text shortened]... esus spoke here in John 15:6 and 10? The actual words that Jesus spoke here in John 15:6 and 10?
You abide in Him, His words abide in you, your good.
Again, not denying you should be obeying Him...simply that we are saved by grace
through faith not of works least any of us be able to boast about it.
If you want to trust in human effort that is on you for your salvation, I'd prefer to trust the
One who came to save me from my sins.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYea, His words are Spirit and Life. Seems like a great thing to me!
Yes, it's marvelous how in John 6:26-63, Jesus makes clear how so much ultimately boils down to the importance of His words. With that in mind, it's unfortunate how few are willing to read His words in context and allow them to speak for themselves. Instead they seem to primarily seek to find ways to twist His words to fit their dogma. When they do that, ...[text shortened]... John 6:26-63, John 8:31-36 and Matthew 26:26-28. You should take a look if you haven't already.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayKJ, I'm asking you to let Jesus' words speak for themselves. To look at what they actually say.
Yea, sure....if anyone does not abide in him will dry up and be burned.
You abide in Him, His words abide in you, your good.
Again, not denying you should be obeying Him...simply that we are saved by grace
through faith not of works least any of us be able to boast about it.
If you want to trust in human effort that is on you for your salvation, I'd prefer to trust the
One who came to save me from my sins.
Those verses do not say "that we are saved by grace
through faith not of works least any of us be able to boast about it." Agreed?
Those verses do not say that you should not " trust in human effort that is on you for your salvation." Agreed?
So what do His words actually say?
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneYou realize there are more verses in scripture than just those right?
KJ, I'm asking you to let Jesus' words speak for themselves. To look at what they actually say.
Those verses do not say "that we are saved by grace
through faith not of works least any of us be able to boast about it." Agreed?
Those verses do not say that you should not " trust in human effort that is on you for your salvation." Agreed?
So what do His words actually say?
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by KellyJayThere is no part of the teachings of Christ that condemns human effort.
I don't think you care about the questions you ask, since answers for this question has
been given to you so many times it isn't funny.
You have been quoting Paul and that is actually mis-quoting Paul as you do not really appreaciate Pauls teachings and how it links with that of Christ.
Christ never condemned human effort and neither did Paul.
You mis-quote and mis-interpret.
26 Sep 15
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI read those related passages already. What I think is the downfall of some is that they claim that in John 6 Christ was speaking of the bread and wine [as flesh and blood] used to remember his death and resurrection as a symbolic event which many churches practice. They they claim is that very important symbolic even that Christ speaks of. However it is clear that Christ is referring to his commandments and doctrine as his flesh and blood.
Yes, it's marvelous how in John 6:26-63, Jesus makes clear how so much ultimately boils down to the importance of His words. With that in mind, it's unfortunate how few are willing to read His words in context and allow them to speak for themselves. Instead they seem to primarily seek to find ways to twist His words to fit their dogma. When they do that, ...[text shortened]... John 6:26-63, John 8:31-36 and Matthew 26:26-28. You should take a look if you haven't already.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
26 Sep 15
John chapter 3 shows a man must receive a new life.
To be born again is the commencement of that new life.
John chapter 3 shows even a very educated and good man like Nicodemus, a "victor of the people" as his name would mean, a ruler of the Jews, must be born again.
He must not only be born again but must be terminated by the reality of baptism - born of water (baptism) and the Spirit.
Jesus goes on to compare Himself to the brass serpent lifted up in the wilderness. If anyone looked to the brass serpent lifted up on the pole by Moses in Numbers 21:4-9 they would be healed and live, surviving the poisoness snake bite.
Brass speaks of judgment.
The serpent stands for Satan.
The picture means Jesus died on the cross as Satan being judged who has entered into man to utterly poison man rendering him dying and useless to God.
So John 3 is your chapter showing on the negative side, Jesus came to die to a redemptive and terminating death. And it shows He also cane to give man a new life.
The conversation occurred to Nicodemus because he was the best God fearing natural man around. He still needed to be terminated, buried with Christ and born again to enter into the kingdom of God.