Salvation

Originally posted by chaney3
ThinkOfOne, I am not sure what your position is regarding 'works', 'sin', and 'salvation'. You are a Christian, but....forgive me, I cannot determine what exactly you are getting at with your posts. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, and makes an effort to live a life that Jesus would want us to live.......we would STILL fall very, very short of that.
...[text shortened]... , we will always fail. I am confused by your posts and the posts of Rak regarding this subject.

By and large I find the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth to be deep and profound and ring of truth.

However very few would consider me a Christian and I don't want to be. "Christianity" as it's commonly understood was built upon the teachings Paul and his followers rather than the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth. As such, many of the core tenets of Christianity fly in the face of what Jesus taught when He walked the Earth.

All humans are sinners, and all humans fall short of a God like life. We may try.....but, we will always fail.

When Jesus walked the Earth, He did not teach this. He taught that His true disciples would know the truth and be made free from committing sin.

What is the concern for works here?

The faith vs. works argument is a false dichotomy. Seems like Christians employ it because they think it easy to attack.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
By and large I find the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth to be deep and profound and ring of truth.

However very few would consider me a Christian and I don't want to be. "Christianity" as it's commonly understood was built upon the teachings Paul and his followers rather than the teachings of Jesus while He walked the Earth. As such, many ...[text shortened]... ment is a false dichotomy. Seems like Christians employ it because they think it easy to attack.

Okay. So....before I comment, what are you....if not a Christian?????

Please note: If Dive and FMF may be viewing, I have not claimed to be a Christian. I believe in a 'God', and I 'think' I believe in Jesus. But, my faith is lacking very much. I don't have a problem admitting this. I am seeking answers, and if Dive and FMF will battle me with this knowledge, I am fine with that.

I am seeking. There is no other way to describe it. Jesus did say.....seek and ye shall find. I am trying.

Originally posted by chaney3
Okay. So....before I comment, what are you....if not a Christian?????

Please note: If Dive and FMF may be viewing, I have not claimed to be a Christian. I believe in a 'God', and I 'think' I believe in Jesus. But, my faith is lacking very much. I don't have a problem admitting this. I am seeking answers, and if Dive and FMF will battle me with this ...[text shortened]... There is no other way to describe it. Jesus did say.....seek and ye shall find. I am trying.

Does it need a label? It is what it is. I am on the side of truth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Does it need a label? It is what it is. I am on the side of truth.

I don't know what that means. You seem to make arguments base on the teachings of Jesus......which 'could' make you a Christian.

What are you???? Christian, agnostic, atheist??? It matters.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I pointed out your dishonesty in my second to last post to you.

Yes, where I denied what you showed me proved your point. That is where I'm dishonest
not that we could simply disagree, I'm dishonest because I don't agree with your argument.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, where I denied what you showed me proved your point. That is where I'm dishonest
not that we could simply disagree, I'm dishonest because I don't agree with your argument.

Read the post again. I was pretty explicit about your dishonesty and it certainly wasn't what you're trying to claim it to be.

Originally posted by chaney3
I don't know what that means. You seem to make arguments base on the teachings of Jesus......which 'could' make you a Christian.

What are you???? Christian, agnostic, atheist??? It matters.

Actually it doesn't. Things are what they are regardless of whatever labels may be assigned them.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Read the post again. I was pretty explicit about your dishonesty and it certainly wasn't what you're trying to claim it to be.

Christians CANNOT live sin free lives, despite what Rak thinks. What is the debate here???

Originally posted by chaney3
Christians CANNOT live sin free lives, despite what Rak thinks. What is the debate here???

Did you mistakenly reply to my response to KJ?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Read the post again. I was pretty explicit about your dishonesty and it certainly wasn't what you're trying to claim it to be.

I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to be dishonest about that is all on you. I've been
telling you the truth as I see it and I believe it to be. So you have to be very clear on what
it is I'm being dishonest about. The dishonesty as far as I'm concern is all between your
ears.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to be dishonest about that is all on you. I've been
telling you the truth as I see it and I believe it to be. So you have to be very clear on what
it is I'm being dishonest about. The dishonesty as far as I'm concern is all between your
ears.

Have always found you to be honest in your opinions Kelly, even though we tend to disagree on most topics. 😉

I thought only Dasa threw the 'dishonesty' label around.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Have always found you to be honest in your opinions Kelly, even though we tend to disagree on most topics. 😉

I thought only Dasa threw the 'dishonesty' label around.

Thank you for your kind words.
I will cut him slack....I know I can get frustrated over someone I'm disagreeing with, I'm sure
I've used that word too, but typically regret it afterwards.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to be dishonest about that is all on you. I've been
telling you the truth as I see it and I believe it to be. So you have to be very clear on what
it is I'm being dishonest about. The dishonesty as far as I'm concern is all between your
ears.

C'mon KJ, it's my third post on Page 12 by my count. The one where I respond to where you said the following:
"I think you have to look at all scripture, and not just pull one verse out to make what you want the way things are."

How is that post NOT clear?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I had no doubt that you had already read those passages. From what I can tell, you are the only one on this forum who truly seeks to understand the words of Jesus. Seems like everyone else works really hard to avoid addressing what He actually says. Then somehow they accuse YOU of ignoring His words. It's pathetic.

Since you cited John 6:63, I figured ...[text shortened]... do it in remembrance of His words - NOT in "remembrance" of His death which hasn't happened yet.

Well, I put the teachings of Christ ie His commandments first, and Paul's teachings must fall in line with that, otherwise I tell myself that I am misinterpreting what Paul said. Apparently you follow a similar mo. Doing that helps me sleep at night 🙂. I dont how how Christians sleep knowing that Christ said one thing and they believe another ... strange people.

Yes the point about 'freedom' in Matt 26 is well taken and meshes well with other passages pertaining to being free from sin if is 'in' Christ.

The mistake Christians make like what KJ constantly says is that claiming to believe in Christ makes them do good works [not necessarily true]. Checkbaiter says that believing in Christ frees them from the burden of sin and sin is not counted against them [another false doctrine]

What Christ says from what I am seeing, is that following his commandments makes one free from sin .. and that makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by chaney3
ThinkOfOne, I am not sure what your position is regarding 'works', 'sin', and 'salvation'. You are a Christian, but....forgive me, I cannot determine what exactly you are getting at with your posts. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, and makes an effort to live a life that Jesus would want us to live.......we would STILL fall very, very short of that.
...[text shortened]... , we will always fail. I am confused by your posts and the posts of Rak regarding this subject.

You seem to be obsessed with falling short. Why not follow Christ with the best of your ability, and let Christ decide if you [or anyone else for that matter] fall short.