Salvation

Originally posted by KellyJay
If you are Abiding in Christ and His Word is abiding in you, you are walking with God.
If you avoid Christ for a life of sin, you will not be abiding in Christ and sin is your master.

The point I was making was:

- you say that its God that does everything and there is no human effort.

Now the Bible speaks ot many who will fall away and not please God and these are converted Christians.

Does it not mean that God has failed and not the Christians who fall away?

Originally posted by Rajk999
The point I was making was:

- you say that its God that does everything and there is no human effort.

Now the Bible speaks ot many who will fall away and not please God and these are converted Christians.

Does it not mean that God has failed and not the Christians who fall away?

God's grace was won for all, that does not mean all will submit to God's will. That is the
bottom line, God gives us His grace and mercy and instead of accepting what Jesus won
some of us want to be righteous by their ability to obey the law, others are good enough
on their own, others working for it, and on and on. This is not a failure on God's part He
did open the door for all, we either walk through it to Him or not.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Salvation is it needed according to scripture and who and how is it all done?

According to scripture the fall of man began when the Serpent convinced
the woman and man to eat of tree in the middle of the garden, the tree of
knowledge of good and evil. Taking the serpent at his word, because
they saw the fruit looked good and having that knowledge appe ...[text shortened]... opinion. He is our great shield and
our great reward, to miss out on Him is our greatest ruin.

There is a man in Afghanistan who has 9 sons.

Why have the Christians limited God by saying he has only 1 begotten son.

Its absurd and its nonsense and its foolishness and its false.

This is the sought of falsehoods that you always find in a religion that has been fabricated from speculation by mundane animal killing personalities.

There is also another religion that has the falsehood that when you blow up men, women and children on a public bus, the Lord gives you 77 virgins as a reward for you martyrdom.

This is the garbage you find in false religion, and the only reason persons do not reject these falsehoods is because they are dishonest.

Originally posted by Dasa
There is a man in Afghanistan who has 9 sons.

Why have the Christians limited God by saying he has only 1 begotten son.

Its absurd and its nonsense and its foolishness and its false.

This is the sought of falsehoods that you always find in a religion that has been fabricated from speculation by mundane animal killing personalities.

There is also ano ...[text shortened]... igion, and the only reason persons do not reject these falsehoods is because they are dishonest.

Sir, you are dishonest in your accusations of dishonesty.

Honest.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Church dogma is a hell of a dangerous thing. I was suffering from its influence, for the early part of my life. teens and early twenties.To get out of it you have to physical leave the church and start over. Its a long process but definitely worth it. Takes a lot of effort, you make a pile of enemies and you have to leave friends and family behind and move o ...[text shortened]... church influences when these are contrary to what Christ preached. Its a difficult place to be.

Church dogma is a hell of a dangerous thing. I was suffering from its influence, for the early part of my life. teens and early twenties

Dogma of any kind is a dangerous thing. Dogma that serves as the foundation for ones core beliefs (like church dogma) is especially dangerous. They are extremely protective of it even to the point of delusion. As such, it in effect "blinds" people to the truth. Think Jesus understood this?

I feel pity for those bogged down by church influences when these are contrary to what Christ preached. Its a difficult place to be.

Unfortunately those who are firmly entrenched in dogma don't seem to find it difficult at all. I wonder if you found it difficult only because you place seeking truth above it.

What's interesting is that Jesus said "the truth will make you free". Those entrenched in dogma have stopped seeking truth.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Church dogma is a hell of a dangerous thing. I was suffering from its influence, for the early part of my life. teens and early twenties

Dogma of any kind is a dangerous thing. Dogma that serves as the foundation for ones core beliefs (like church dogma) is especially dangerous. They are extremely protective of it even to the point of delusion. ...[text shortened]... Jesus said "the truth will make you free". Those entrenched in dogma have stopped seeking truth.[/b]

I actually agree with you, life is in Jesus Christ not dogma.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I actually agree with you, life is in Jesus Christ not dogma.

KJ, you're about as firmly entrenched in dogma as any I've come across. It's clear that you have stopped seeking truth.

Just look at your behavior in this thread and other threads. When faced with having to directly address what Jesus actually said that spoke against your dogma, you often responded by reiterating your dogma to avoid directly addressing it. When pressed, it got ugly with a false accusation, a snide question, a dishonest statement or whatever it took to allow you to avoid directly addressing it.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
KJ, you're about as firmly entrenched in dogma as any I've come across. It's clear that you have stopped seeking truth.

Just look at your behavior in this thread and other threads. When faced with having to directly address what Jesus actually said that spoke against your dogma, you often responded by reiterating your dogma to avoid directly addressing ...[text shortened]... uestion, a dishonest statement or whatever it took to allow you to avoid directly addressing it.

The life is in Jesus Christ, and that will not change.
If I see something in scripture that is very clear to me than that is what I'm going to go with.
Not sure what you mean when you say dogma, but if it is coming up with what we think the
scripture teaches as true is dogma I'm guilty.
You never pointed out to me where I'm in error, and I am not going to go looking for
something I don't think is there. If you really cared you simply quote me and scripture
on my error. Failing that, I think you are just blowing smoke.

Originally posted by KellyJay
The life is in Jesus Christ, and that will not change.
If I see something in scripture that is very clear to me than that is what I'm going to go with.
Not sure what you mean when you say dogma, but if it is coming up with what we think the
scripture teaches as true is dogma I'm guilty.
You never pointed out to me where I'm in error, and I am not going ...[text shortened]... ou simply quote me and scripture
on my error. Failing that, I think you are just blowing smoke.

You never pointed out to me where I'm in error, and I am not going to go looking for
something I don't think is there.

To say that I "never pointed out to [you] where [you're] in error" is a flat out lie. In my third post on page 12, I explained in detail what was dishonest about one of your statements. You completely ignored it despite the fact that it was the major point of that post. Not only that, I TWICE later directed you to that post.

Then you started all this pretense about it not being there. Well, I just checked and it's STILL my third post on page 12, so those claims have been lies as well. All told, that shows that you're a liar who evidently has no reservations about continuing to lie.

In a way, this situation isn't dissimilar to how you look at scripture. You basically ignore what doesn't fit your dogma and seem to pretend that it isn't there.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]You never pointed out to me where I'm in error, and I am not going to go looking for
something I don't think is there.

To say that I "never pointed out to [you] where [you're] in error" is a flat out lie. In my third post on page 12, I explained in detail what was dishonest about one of your statements. You completely ignored it despite the fac ...[text shortened]... pture. You basically ignore what doesn't fit your dogma and seem to pretend that it isn't there.[/b]

As I said, you asked me to dig around looking for it, that isn't going to happen.
If you want to me to see it quote it.
All of the things I have written about I'm more than willing to defend.
If you have an issue, make it clear.

Originally posted by KellyJay
As I said, you asked me to dig around looking for it, that isn't going to happen.
If you want to me to see it quote it.
All of the things I have written about I'm more than willing to defend.
If you have an issue, make it clear.

you asked me to dig around looking for it

Look KJ, I've told you a few times exactly where to find that post.

Once again, it's my third post on page 12. And, yes, it's still there despite your repeated claims that it isn't.

So all you need to be able to do is count to three.

Seems like that shouldn't be difficult for anyone including you.

It's not as if you have to hunt around without a clue as to its whereabouts.

Mischaracterizing it by saying that I'm "ask[ing] [you] to dig around" is another deceit on your part and a continuation of your dishonesty.

If you have an issue, make it clear.

I made it quite clear in my third post on page 12 and I've told you repeatedly exactly where to find it.

Mischaracterizing it as if I haven't made it clear is another deceit on your part and a continuation of your dishonesty.

As I said in my previous post:

To say that I "never pointed out to [you] where [you're] in error" is a flat out lie. In my third post on page 12, I explained in detail what was dishonest about one of your statements. You completely ignored it despite the fact that it was the major point of that post. Not only that, I TWICE later directed you to that post.

Then you started all this pretense about it not being there. Well, I just checked and it's STILL my third post on page 12, so those claims have been lies as well. All told, that shows that you're a liar who evidently has no reservations about continuing to lie.

If part of the problem is that you have difficulty being honest with yourself, then I suggest you find a way to do so.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]you asked me to dig around looking for it

Look KJ, I've told you a few times exactly where to find that post.

Once again, it's my third post on page 12. And, yes, it's still there despite your repeated claims that it isn't.

So all you need to be able to do is count to three.

Seems like that shouldn't be difficult for anyone including ...[text shortened]... is that you have difficulty being honest with yourself, then I suggest you find a way to do so.[/b]

I've replied to every post directed at me, if you posted something at me on page 12 I'm
sure you can find a reply from me already maybe even on page 12. Which leads me to ask you
again, if I replied to you once already and you didn't like my response maybe you should
enlighten me on where I missed the mark on my reply. I'm not a mind reader so you'll have
to do what I'm sure I've asked you before, explain yourself. Going through your posts
to figure your thoughts out isn't something I'm going to do.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Dogma of any kind is a dangerous thing. Dogma that serves as the foundation for ones core beliefs (like church dogma) is especially dangerous. They are extremely protective of it even to the point of delusion. As such, it in effect "blinds" people to the truth. Think Jesus understood this?

Do you think the insistence of many Christians (and non-Christians for that matter) that Jesus taught what they call "the golden rule" is a dogma ? That would be "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Do you think it is a dangerous thing for that principle to be held as a dogma ?

From Wiki:

Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. The term can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, religion, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2]

If you don't think the so called "golden rule" is a dangerous dogma, isn't it a little risky to make hasty generalizations ? IE.

Dogma of any kind is a dangerous thing.

Maybe you mean "Dogma that I personally don't like are a dangerous thing."

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've replied to every post directed at me, if you posted something at me on page 12 I'm
sure you can find a reply from me already maybe even on page 12. Which leads me to ask you
again, if I replied to you once already and you didn't like my response maybe you should
enlighten me on where I missed the mark on my reply. I'm not a mind reader so you'll hav ...[text shortened]... yourself. Going through your posts
to figure your thoughts out isn't something I'm going to do.

For someone who seems to think he has the Holy Spirit directing him, you certainly don't seem to have any reservations about being deceitful.

I'm not going to bother to point out your latest deceits since your previous deceits are well documented and you don't seem to have any sense of shame whatsoever.

I've known for some time that you're extremely prideful when it comes to your reading and writing skills and that you have difficulty in being honest with yourself about them. So I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at the dishonesty that you've displayed on this thread. However, I have to admit that I am surprised at your propensity for tacking deceit upon deceit. Live and learn as they say.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Church dogma is a hell of a dangerous thing. I was suffering from its influence, for the early part of my life. teens and early twenties

Dogma of any kind is a dangerous thing. Dogma that serves as the foundation for ones core beliefs (like church dogma) is especially dangerous. They are extremely protective of it even to the point of delusion. ...[text shortened]... Jesus said "the truth will make you free". Those entrenched in dogma have stopped seeking truth.[/b]

Yes to that . Truth in Jesus Christ is what I was after. In my twenties I did not really care for parents and siblings to agree... so it was not that hard. I think Christ said that if you give up family and friends to be with Him then you will get back more in return... 🙂