Salvation

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seems that GoaD cannot help himself and continues to troll - continues to make my point.

As I said:

Your toll-like behavior has been well documented on the "Ephesians 2:8-9" thread. Shouldn't take long for most to understand what you're about.

From what I've seen, you've only made three posts on this thread and each of them to 'stir the pot'. It's what trolls do.

Seems 'I often honk' cannot help himself and continues to troll, shooting himself in the foot.

As i said:

'Seriously dude, do you ever win an argument? The Ephesian's thread was just plain embarrassing for you. Your whole gusto was about me being confused by a poster and then trying to conceal that confusion, a gusto shown to be a nonsense by the poster confirming i had answered him perfectly well.

I'm content to watch you flounder like a beached halibut,' .

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

Looks like you're not sure about the following paragraph:
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I think I said merely that I understood you.
And is it me or are you avoiding some pretty clear questions I've asked you ?

Jesus taught that ultimately what is required for "eternal life" / "the kingdom" is transformation into a righteous being: from a "slave" to a "son",

Once again:

Are you saying a Christian should seek to move through transformation from any kind of slavery more and more into a intimate divine family relationship as a SON ?

Or are you saying NO PERSON who is still in any kind of slavery bondage need believe he is a Christian, or saved, or participating in eternal life or in any sense a constituent of the kingdom of God ?

I would take the former position from my own experience.
Did you ever read Pilgrim's Progress ?
PROGRESS - is in important word there.

from one "born of the flesh" to one "born of the spirit", from a "bad tree" to a "good tree". A "son" no longer commits sin, one "born of the spirit" no longer commits sin, a "good tree" no longer commits sin. In short, one must become one with God as He was one with God. One must become a son of God as he was a son of God.

Well, I am certainly a work in progress. And as a work in PROGRESS, I do stand on the promise of First Corinthains 6:17

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" ( 1 Cor. 6:17)

My human spirit and the Divine Person the Holy Spirit who is Jesus Christ in His "pneumatic" form are "ONE spirit" . That means I am joined, attached, firmly attached, and "organically" one with Jesus Christ.

Are you saying that I as a Christian and a work in progress HAVE NO RIGHT to stand on the promise that NOW ... I am joined to Christ and am one spirit with Christ ?

If that is what you are saying, that is heterodox. That's a fancy word for saying "You blew it dude."

Hopefully the following will make things more clear.

Jesus used three different metaphors to express the same concepts. There are two points that need to be understood from these metaphors. Let's take them one point at a time.

Let's go into below.

ThinkOfOne,

One point that needs to be understood is that in these metaphors, Jesus speaks in strict dichotomy:

1) One is either a "good tree" or a "bad tree" and one's fruit is either all "good" or all "bad".
Matthew 7
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

The dichotomy is not so strict that it doesn't allow for growth, transformation, progress from one kind of tree to another, so to speak.

For example, in the very same chapter 7 of Matthew He teaches:

"And why do you look at the splinter which is in your brother's eye, but the beam in your eye you do not consider. (v.3)

Or how can you say to your brother, Let me remove the splinter from your eye, and behold, the beam in your eye? (v.4)

Hypocrite, first remove the beam from you eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the the splinter from your brother's eye." (v.5)

The passage shows Jesus expected His disciples to help one another along the way of progress. Yet they should look firstly to the defects, failures, imperfections that they themselves have first.

There is no way around understanding that FROM a bad tree TO a good tree is a matter of progress - the growth of His life actually.
Really the only "good tree" is Jesus Christ Himself. And He wants to dispense His life into ours.

He begins this dispensation by JOINING us with the Lord in our innermost being, our regenerated spirit -

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

ThinkOfOne,

2) One is either a "slave" or a "son". Everyone who commits sin is a "slave". Everyone else is a "son".
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

This teaching to does not negate growth in the divine life and the progress of maturity. It does not negate His gradual dispensing of His life into our soul for transformation.

For example, a Christian still has a bad habit of roving eyes at the opposite sex while walking down the street. He need not say " I am no son of God. I am no one who has eternal life. I am no one in the kingdom of God."

Instead he may proclaim quietly with a prayerful spirit -

"He who commits gazing lustfully at girls is a slave at gazing lustfully at girls. Lord Jesus, I don't want to be a slave to this. I call on Your name. I touch You. You live in me at this moment. Lord YOU be my self control. I am one spirit with You. I am JOINED to the Lord. I take you. Thank You Lord Jesus for being everything that I need. "

Because he is indwelt with by Christ, Christ as the Faithful One floods him with GRACE. The weakness is swallowed up spontaneously.

Like "Power Steering" a little turning of the heart to Christ, standing on His word causes GRACE to flow in and regulate. He feels free. He feels comfortable. He feels victorious. And it is harder for some atheist to convince him that God is not real.

He knows. And he knows that he knows, that if it weren't for God in him he simply could not prevail against that besetting sin. He knows Jesus is real because He lives within his heart.

" He lives, He lives.
Christ Jesus lives today.
He walks with me and talks with me,
Along life's narrow way.

He lives, He lives,
Salvation to impart ....

You ask me how I know He lives.
HE LIVES WITHIN MY HEART."

- Words and Music by Alfred Ackley 1933
Concentrate on the words.

YouTube

Originally posted by sonship
ThinkOfOne,

2) One is either a "slave" or a "son". Everyone who commits sin is a "slave". Everyone else is a "son".
John 8
34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

This teaching to does not negate growth in the divine life and the progress of maturity. It does ...[text shortened]... 1933
Concentrate on the words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc1CBrtpkok[/b]

Apologies Sonship if i interrupted your flow. You've written some very interesting stuff and i have been following.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Apologies Sonship if i interrupted your flow. You've written some very interesting stuff and i have been following.

No problem,

Here this here song ! Wow. My experience exactly.

- Words and Music by Alfred Ackley 1933
Concentrate on the words.

YouTube

Originally posted by sonship
No problem,

Here this here song ! Wow. My experience exactly.

- Words and Music by Alfred Ackley 1933
Concentrate on the words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc1CBrtpkok

'You ask me how i know he lives, he lives within my heart.'

Actually very beautifully written.

Originally posted by sonship
ThinkOfOne,

[quote]
One point that needs to be understood is that in these metaphors, Jesus speaks in strict dichotomy:

1) One is either a "good tree" or a "bad tree" and one's fruit is either all "good" or all "bad".
Matthew 7
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad f ...[text shortened]... our regenerated spirit -

[b]"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17) [/b]

The dichotomy is not so strict that it doesn't allow for growth, transformation, progress from one kind of tree to another, so to speak.

Of course it's up to the individual to make sure they transform from a "bad tree" to a "good tree".

The fact remains that Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize the fact that He is speaking in strict dichotomy:
"17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.

6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Similarly one is EITHER righteous or not righteous. One is not righteous until one has completely transformed. The righteous do not commit sin.

A "good tree" CANNOT bear "bad fruit", EVERYONE who commits sin is a slave, ONLY that which has been "born of the spirit" is spirit.

The second point that needs to be understood in these metaphors, is what happens to those that have been transformed vs. those that have not been transformed.

1) Everyone who is not a "good tree", is thrown into the fire.
Matthew 7
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

2) "Slaves" do not "remain in the house forever". "Sons" do "remain in the house forever".
John 8
35“The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

3) Only those who have been "born of the spirit" can enter the Kingdom of God. Those that have not been "born of the spirit" cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
John 3
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So "good trees" no longer commit sin and are the only ones who are not "cast into the fire".

So "sons" no longer commit sin and are the only ones that remain in the house forever.

So those "born of the spirit" no longer commit sin and are the only ones that can enter into the Kingdom of God.

The same basic concepts expressed in three different metaphors.

Similarly one is EITHER righteous or not righteous. One is not righteous until one has completely transformed. The righteous do not commit sin. Only the righteous gain "Eternal Life" / "the Kingdom".

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

The fact remains that Jesus goes out of His way to emphasize the fact that He is speaking in strict dichotomy:
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He is right IN His way.
He is ALWAYS right in His way saying what needs to be said.


"17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
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Really the only good tree is Jesus Himself.
So we must be grafted into Him.
You know when you graft an unhealthy branch into a healthy tree, the healthy tree will spread its healthy life into that branch.

In John 15 He speaks much about the branches abiding in Himself "the true vine".

Now you can see the significance of 1 Cor. 6:17 - saying "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit". This is the event of the believer being grafted inwardly into the Lord Jesus Himself.

While we are abiding in Him, allowing Him to grow and spread within our soul we are being transformed into peacemakers. And peacemakers shall be called sons of God in Matthew.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of Gpd." (Matt. 5:9)

Faithful Apostle and pioneer into the riches of Christ echoes the same about peace and the kingdom of God to the Christians in Rome.

"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Rom. 14:17)

Don't you just love Paul's wisdom and faithfulness as a Christian? I certainly do. The kingdom of God he says, IS ... presently "righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

We can check to see if we are in the experience of God's administration and God's kingdom in the church age.

34Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
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It is a good thing that the Son can set us free.
He and He alone has the victory over sin.
And He can dispense His life and nature into us - once we are born of God and made "one spirit" with Him today.

He has also made provision for sins for the period of time in which we are being perfected. He made provision for our sins. It is in the same Gospel of Matthew at that crucial point of His death for redemption:

"And He took a cup and gave thanks, and He gave it to them and said, Drink of it, all of you,

For this is My blood of the covenant , which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt. 26:27,28)

As we are growing in Him we enjoy the peace in our conscience because of His redeeming blood poured out on Calvary, for our forgiveness.


6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Similarly one is EITHER righteous or not righteous. One is not righteous until one has completely transformed. The righteous do not commit sin.
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And in His mighty prayer to His Father He petitions for us that we be PERFECTED, which of course means an ongoing process.

" I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one ... " (John 17:23a)

It is amazing how the ONENESS is needed to furnish the most fertile ground for the disciples to be "PERFECTED" .

Once again our faithful brother Paul echoes Christ in describing the growing into a full grown man in the measure of the stature of Christ.

" For the PERFECTING of the saints unto the work of ministry, unto the building up of the Body of Christ,

Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

That we may be no longer little children tossed by waves and carried about by every wind of teaching in the slight of men, in craftiness with a view to a system of error;

But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ, ... " (Eph. 4:12-15)

Here we see GROWTH in the oneness of the local church.
Here we see going from children to a corporate full grown man.
Here we see the building up of the Body of Christ in a practical way in locality by locality where the saints meet in oneness.

So at every stage we Christians must love one another and HOLD FAST THE HEAD - Christ for this growth:

"... holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ,

Out from whom all the Body, being joined together and being knit together through every joint of the rich supply and through the operation of the measure of each one part, causes the growth growth of the Body unto the building up of itself in love." (vs. 15,16)

For normal growth and building up we need to meet in oneness in Christ and always hold to this Christ. All the growth and the building come out of Him.


A "good tree" CANNOT bear "bad fruit", EVERYONE who commits sin is a slave, ONLY that which has been "born of the spirit" is spirit.
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BIRTH of course is the initiation of life.
Birth should be normally followed by growth in maturity eventually.
The Ephesian passages show how in the Christian church, the oneness and the holding to Christ "causes the growth of the Body" .

Then in the oneness of the church we grow along with the Body of Christ. This is not just my doctrine. This is my experience. But ,,. Oh ,,, how we need to grow more. How we need to be builded up more.

The second point that needs to be understood in these metaphors, is what happens to those that have been transformed vs. those that have not been transformed.

1) Everyone who is not a "good tree", is thrown into the fire.
Matthew 7
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Do you teach these things because you are a Christian teacher genuinely concerned about the sanctification and maturation of believers in Christ, as the Apostles were concerned?

OR do you teach these things because they are useful in helping you rationalize against Jesus being Lord ?

You know a bright young man also had some good points from Scripture. But it also says that he was desiring to justify himself.

"And He [Jesus] said to him, You have answered correctly; do this, and you shall have life.

But he, wanting to justify himself said to Jesus, And who is my neighbor?" (Luke 10:28,29)

You see this questioner came with some good points to Jesus and was practically teaching Him. But actually his desire was to justify himself, rationalizing away his need to be a disciple.

If all your expounding reveals a real concern for following Jesus, then that is good. But if your expounding below the surface is just your rationalizing with various maneuvers why you don't need to believe in Christ as your Lord, that is self deceiving.

Now we come to your top favorite verse.


2) "Slaves" do not "remain in the house forever". "Sons" do "remain in the house forever".
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Actually, the "house" is being builded. It is a living house. The believer is being transformed into the house.

" In whom all the building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord;

In whom you also are being built into a dwelling place [or habitation] of God in spirit." (Eph. 2:21,22)

So the house of God is the prevailing church of God - the pillar and base of the truth:

"But if I delay; I write that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth." (1 Tim. 3:15)

Of course an untransformed old man cannot be built up into the church of the living God, the house of God. Growth and transformation go along with being built up into the church and even remaining forever.

Hebrews also says that the believers in Christ are the house of God as it is being built up.

" But Christ was faithful as a Son over His house, whose house we are if indeed we hold fast the boldness and the boast of hope firm to the end." (Hebrews 3:6)

" ... a Son over His house, WHOSE HOUSE WE ARE ..."

So our going to be in the house is actually our being built up into the house. And only the new man, the transformed and sanctified humanity can build up this house of God; this "dwelling place of God in spirit."

Originally posted by sonship

The second point that needs to be understood in these metaphors, is what happens to those that have been transformed vs. those that have not been transformed.

1) Everyone who is not a "good tree", is thrown into the fire.
Matthew 7
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Do you teach th ...[text shortened]... and sanctified humanity can build up this house of God; this "dwelling place of God in spirit."

You certainly haven't outgrown your penchant for dismissing the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth by taking verses from disparate sources out of context and cobbling them together.

No idea how you can possibly expect to understand the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth if you don't read them in context. But perhaps that's the point, since His words convey concepts that are markedly different from your beliefs.

For example you referenced John 15 in the following:

Really the only good tree is Jesus Himself.
So we must be grafted into Him.
You know when you graft an unhealthy branch into a healthy tree, the healthy tree will spread its healthy life into that branch.

In John 15 He speaks much about the branches abiding in Himself "the true vine".

Let's look at John 15 and the concepts conveyed by the words of Jesus:

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The first thing that needs to be understood is who abides in Jesus' love. In John 15:10, Jesus clearly states that one must KEEP His commandments to abide in His love. And not just KEEP His commandments, but KEEP them as He KEPT His Father's commandments (which is perfectly).

Another thing that needs to be understood is what happens to those who do not abide in Him. In John 15:6, Jesus clearly states that those who do not abide in Him are cast into the fire and are burned.

To summarize, those who do not KEEP His commandments perfectly do not abide in Jesus' love are cast into the fire and are burned.

This parallels the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus in Matthew 7:15-20. Those who are not "good trees" are cast into the fire and are burned. These are the same concepts that I summarized in my last post to you: "So 'good trees' no longer commit sin and are the only ones who are not 'cast into the fire'".

Once again:
No idea how you can possibly expect to understand the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth if you don't read them in context. But perhaps that's the point, since His words convey concepts that are markedly different from your beliefs.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once again:
No idea how you can possibly expect to understand the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth if you don't read them in context. But perhaps that's the point, since His words convey concepts that are markedly different from your beliefs.

You're starting to sound like Hinds, when he says that "EVIL-utionists are all going to the Lake of Fire."

Sounds nuts, right? However, your error is the same as his error.

Throughout history, people have leaned to their own understanding and interpreted scripture in their own erroneous ways. But then they get to stand on their soapbox and proclaim that if anyone disagrees with them, they are disagreeing with the Word of God, when No, they're just disagreeing with someone's faulty interpretation. Peoples have fought wars over disagreeing interpretations, both sides sure that the other is "denying God Almighty".

And the literalists will always be with us. We just have to make sure they don't stand in the way of our salvation by distracting us from the actual meaning of the Word of God.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You're starting to sound like Hinds, when he says that "EVIL-utionists are all going to the Lake of Fire."

Sounds nuts, right? However, your error is the same as his error.

Throughout history, people have leaned to their own understanding and interpreted scripture in their own erroneous ways. But then they get to stand on their soapbox and proclaim ...[text shortened]... stand in the way of our salvation by distracting us from the actual meaning of the Word of God.

... they get to stand on their soapbox and proclaim that if anyone disagrees with them, they are disagreeing with the Word of God...

C'mon Suzianne, where did I state or even imply anything of the sort?

Is my memory faulty or wasn't there a time when for the most part, you took the time to actually consider the content of what others posted and the content of your responses instead of posting knee-jerk reactions? Seems like, for a little while now, your responses on this forum has been weighted heavily toward the latter when it used to be the other way around.

The following is far more Hindsian than anything I posted:
"And the literalists will always be with us. We just have to make sure they don't stand in the way of our salvation by distracting us from the actual meaning of the Word of God."

EDIT: And for that matter, far far closer to the words in bold above. How do you explain THAT?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne

The first thing that needs to be understood is who abides in Jesus' love. In John 15:10, Jesus clearly states that one must KEEP His commandments to abide in His love. And not just KEEP His commandments, but KEEP them as He KEPT His Father's commandments (which is perfectly).
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I think the first thing I would point out is the peculiar nature of His command:

" Abide in Me and I in you. " (v.4a)

This is very unusual command. It does not stop with "Abide in Me". Immediately something follows "and I in you" So it is a command to participate in MUTUAL abiding. If I abide in the available living Jesus, the available living Jesus will abide in me.

Any thought that Jesus is not present, living, resurrected, available, experiential, and subjectively applicable has nothing to do with this command.

"Abide in Me AND I IN YOU"

is about the mutuality of Jesus Christ living though me because I abide in Him.

If you do not believe that Jesus is risen there is no way for you to abide in Him. If you also do not believe that Jesus is God as well as man, it is hard to appreciate that you can abide in Jesus, much less that Jesus can live in and through you.


Another thing that needs to be understood is what happens to those who do not abide in Him. In John 15:6, Jesus clearly states that those who do not abide in Him are cast into the fire and are burned.
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Yes, we notice that verse also.
And since it says "He is cast out as a branch and is dried up, and they gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned" it certainly conveys seriousness.

But we count as serious that some will be saved YET SO AS THROUGH FIRE (1 Cor. 3:15).

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

So the discipline of suffering loss instead of receiving reward in the kingdom age, should be taken with the fear that such a prospect evokes.

I don't think the cast into the fire of John 15 necessarily has to mean eternal punishment. Since the rest of the Gospel of John has so many other teachings which stress the assurance of eternal redemption, John 15:6 probably refers to a dispensational and temporary dealing of one saved yet so as through fire.

Jesus is speaking to us in the letter of First Corinthians also.


To summarize, those who do not KEEP His commandments perfectly do not abide in Jesus' love are cast into the fire and are burned.
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That is a mostly negative side summary of a section of teaching which has very many positive things too.

In the church in Corinth there was a very backsliding brother whom Paul had to discipline. Though the backslider latter repented. What the apostle said concerning this Christians failure to abide in the Lord was this:

" In the name of the Lord Jesus, when you and my spirit have been assembled, with the power of our Lord Jesus,

To deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord." ( 1 Cor. 5:4,5)

The point here is that a Christian may suffer some loss not only in this age but in the next, though he be saved. It is similar to "suffer loss" but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire.

So John 15:6, the one fearful verse in the other 16 verses on this Vine and branches teaching, though a warning, need not be taken as eternal perdition.

When you teach John 15 as if that is the main or only thing you want to emphasize, that is strange.

If however, what hides behind your teaching is a rational not have assurance of Christ's indwelling then I am sorry to say, that would be like a wolf in sheep's clothing teaching.
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So you want to talk about "hiding". Okay. I consider that you are hiding very much. What do you hide? I am pretty sure that you hide that you do not take the 27 books of the New Testament as God's oracles. Though you keep this close to the vest, concealing your rejection of the apostles, your hiding is detected.

If you want to play hardball with me, I'll oblige you,
Your teaching come across as that of "a wolf in sheep's clothing."

It does not escape notice that the central matter of Christ's resurrection, you avoid and evade. While giving lip service to the Gospels, you're curiously unresponsive to both the New Testament's proclamation of Christ's redemptive death AND His resurrection.

Did you think maybe you'd just kind of slip by unnoticed ?
Did you think stressing sayings of Jesus about abiding might draw attention away from His teaching about His death and resurrection?

What I see in your selective handling of NT passages is mostly a subtle attack against the incarnation, the redemptive death, and the resurrection.

Cont. below

This parallels the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus in Matthew 7:15-20.
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Jesus teaches there about false prophets:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

By their fruits you will recognize them. ..." (vs.15.16a)

Certain teachers are deceptive. Though they are cloaked in an innocent demeanor, inwardly they are predatory and destructive.

I consider a wolf in sheep's clothing a teacher of the New Testament talking about sayings of Jesus, while all the while denying His incarnation as God become a man; denying His redemptive death; denying His resurrection and availability to be received.

When Jesus says "By their fruits you shall recognize them" (v.20) He is specifically referring to false prophets (v.15).

Those who are not "good trees" are cast into the fire and are burned. These are the same concepts that I summarized in my last post to you: "So 'good trees' no longer commit sin and are the only ones who are not 'cast into the fire'".
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Since the Lord was speaking specifically of "false prophets" the bad fruits would include teaching against what Jesus taught.

In other words, if Jesus taught that He established a new covenant for the forgiveness of sins in His blood (Matt. 26:28) but some teacher downplays that in favor of teaching His redemption is not effectual and His resurrection didn't happen or is not important to discuss, that teacher is a false prophet.

And we do know them by their fruits.

Along with such false prophets as bad trees thrown into the fire we also have in Matthew phony disciples thrown into the fire. This is seen in the parable of the tares sown by an enemy in the wheat field.

The two plants are initially very hard to tell apart.

"And the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? Where then did the tares come from?

And he said to them, An enemy has done this, And the slaves said to him, Do you want us to go and collect them? But he said, No, lest while collecting the tares, you uproot the wheat along with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Collect first the tares and bind them into bundles to burn them up, but the wheat gather into my barn." (Matt. 13:17-30)

In this teaching the genuine plants of God and the impostors of God's enemy can only be discerned by special servants at the harvest. The special reapers are the angels of God as Jesus explains.

"He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; And the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one.

And the enemy who sowed them is the devil; and the harvest is the consummation of the age; and the reapers are angels.

Therefore just as the tares are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the consummation of the age. The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness.

And will cast them into the furnace of fire. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. " (vs. 37-43)

So you see Jesus taught that there will also be the case that two plants CANNOT be completely told apart except by the angels at the end of the age. He allows them to grow together, in the world, and the job of separation will be done by the angels.

The tares were sown specifically to hinder and frustrate the growth of the wheat. So some teachers teach the New Testament as sent by God's enemy to frustrate the growth of Christians.


Once again:
No idea how you can possibly expect to understand the concepts conveyed by the words spoken by Jesus while He walked the Earth if you don't read them in context. But perhaps that's the point, since His words convey concepts that are markedly different from your beliefs.
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Your subtle use of the phrase "while He walked on the earth" is actually a veiled teaching that He did not rise from the dead and is not available.

You are skillful at fighting against the New Testament by referring to some of it.