Spirituality
02 Aug 14
10 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterNot really. I think i can figure out why.
It seems that while Kelly believes that a Christian can "fall away" as substantiated by him quoting the scripture from Hebrews, it also seems that for some reason he will not allow FMF's experience to fall into that category. I find it quite strange.
10 Aug 14
Originally posted by KellyJayBut if they do not, and all you really have is belief, then he was like other Christians.
If they actually have God, if Jesus is actually saves, then you were never like other Christians.
So ultimately your disagreement is:
Kelly: God is real, I cannot possibly be mistaken, it is not just a belief.
FMF: God is not real, you just believe he is.
Divegester presumably accepts the possibility that all he has is belief.
I find Kellys claim is rather hypocritical given that he is best known on this forum for telling everyone else, that what they think they know to be true is actually just belief.
10 Aug 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadHowever, what KellyJay and I believe is backed up by the Holy Bible. FMF has rejected the Holy Bible, so his belief is based on his own fallibility.
But if they do not, and all you really have is belief, then he was like other Christians.
So ultimately your disagreement is:
Kelly: God is real, I cannot possibly be mistaken, it is not just a belief.
FMF: God is not real, you just believe he is.
Divegester presumably accepts the possibility that all he has is belief.
I find Kellys claim is rath ...[text shortened]... um for telling everyone else, that what they think they know to be true is actually just belief.
11 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFAnd yet you reject Christ, you reject the Holy Spirit. Christians don't do
I do speak for myself. And I was a Christian for twenty eight years. During those years I met hundreds of my Christian brothers and sisters. So I know something about Christians ~ and this fact is unaffected by you blurting out "You have no clue...". Like all Christians, I believed I had Jesus in my life. How could they call themselves Christian if they didn't?
that, you did, and continue to do so! Those who know the Lord, and you I
can only assume do not see eye to eye, and you reject out of hand their
lives as it really does relate to God through Jesus Christ. You have no choice
but to reject all claims about people coming to know the Lord as not being
real. Since you have to reject those claims, I don't seriously accept you are
really an expert on what their lives are really like, you may grasp the lives
of the fake ones, since what you thought was real wasn't.
Kelly
11 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFNo, I'm calling you a liar, because you claim your FAKE Christian life is no
Calling me a "liar" because my perceptions and experience do not exactly match yours makes you seem ~ spiritually speaking ~ so small and partisan. Is that all you've got when it all boils down: calling me a "liar" for telling you I was a Christian for nearly three decades?
different than all of those who are Christians.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayBut I haven't lied about anything. I have not claimed to have been a fake Christian. I was sincere. I was certain. It was real to me at that time. I am not claiming that you are a fake Christian. I am not claiming you are insincere. I am not saying I was exactly the same as you back then. I am simply telling you that we were both Christians. Smearing me as a "liar" doesn't alter this one little bit, even if it gives you some personal satisfaction.
No, I'm calling you a liar, because you claim your FAKE Christian life is no
different than all of those who are Christians.
Originally posted by KellyJayAs an ex-Christian, obviously, I do not "see eye to eye" with Christians on the matter of Christianity any more. I have never said I do. I know what you believe but I no longer claim to believe the things you claim to believe. Can you really not get to grips with what it means for someone's beliefs to have changed. You have said several times that you understand what this means and yet you keep demonstrating to me that you don't.
Those who know the Lord, and you I can only assume do not see eye to eye, and you reject out of hand their lives as it really does relate to God through Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by FMFMaybe, FMF, if you knew what a Christian is, and how one becomes a Christian, you wouldn't be saying that you used to be one.
As an ex-Christian, obviously, I do not "see eye to eye" with Christians on the matter of Christianity any more. I have never said I do. I know what you believe but I no longer claim to believe the things you claim to believe. Can you really not get to grips with what it means for someone's beliefs to have changed. You have said several times that you understand what this means and yet you keep demonstrating to me that you don't.
There's no such thing as an ex-Christian. One is a Christian by the will of God. One does not become a Christian unless one has satisfied the requirement of what it takes to be made a Christian. Once one is a Christian, by the operation of the Holy Ghost, one is then a Christian forever.
Probably what you had experience in the past was merely religion, which is only an intellectual assent to a system of idealogical dogma designed to give the adherent acceptance in whatever religion one chooses.
Originally posted by josephwI was a Christian for twenty eight years. You can ooze all the joyless technocratic pronouncements you want, but it does not alter this fact. 😀
There's no such thing as an ex-Christian. One is a Christian by the will of God. One does not become a Christian unless one has satisfied the requirement of what it takes to be made a Christian. Once one is a Christian, by the operation of the Holy Ghost, one is then a Christian forever.
11 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFI've never said you didn't make the claim, you claimed to be a Christian.
Calling me a "liar" because my perceptions and experience do not exactly match yours makes you seem ~ spiritually speaking ~ so small and partisan. Is that all you've got when it all boils down: calling me a "liar" for telling you I was a Christian for nearly three decades?
Many a man claim they are faithful as they cheat on their wives. Claims
and reality from time to time do not always line up. Just as you who claim
you were a Christian who was no different than the rest of the Christians.
So you want me to believe you were an unfaithful Christian, your first love
and you parted ways. Jesus wasn't good enough for you, and you were just
like all other Christians, that is crap. People suffer greatly remaining faithful
to the Lord, they lost their lives, watched family die, mistreated in the most
worse ways possible! These you claim were just like you! What a piece of
work you are! The more you make that claim you belittle those faithful to
the Lord, and the Lord who died for us!
Kelly
Originally posted by josephwAll you propagate here yourself is "merely religion" and "idealogical dogma". I rarely sense you imparting anything relevant or perceptive about the spiritual realm other than doctrines and pronouncements based on the religion you happen to have chosen, based as it is on Hebrew mythology.
Probably what you had experience in the past was merely religion, which is only an intellectual assent to a system of idealogical dogma designed to give the adherent acceptance in whatever religion one chooses.