Somebody help me...

Originally posted by KellyJay
People suffer greatly remaining faithful to the Lord, they lost their lives, watched family die, mistreated in the most worse ways possible! These you claim were just like you! What a piece of work you are! The more you make that claim you belittle those faithful to the Lord, and the Lord who died for us!

During those twenty eight years people close to me lost their lives and I watched family members die. You can try to belittle me all you want. You can even try insinuating that I am somehow unsympathetic to Christians that have lost loved ones. These silly and mean-spirited debating tactics of yours amount to nothing. There is no altering the fact that I too drew strength from my Christian faith at times of bereavement and suffering during that part of my life. The only person you are belittling with your tactics here is yourself.

Originally posted by josephw
Then you're not listening.

Can't get past square one before anything said gets shot down besides.

You propagate adherence to "idealogical dogma" that I have successfully escaped from. When I listen to you, I get exactly what you're on about.

Originally posted by FMF
During those twenty eight years people close to me lost their lives and I watched family members die. You can try to belittle me all you want. You can even try insinuating that I am somehow unsympathetic to Christians that have lost loved ones. These silly and mean-spirited debating tactics of yours amount to nothing. There is no altering the fact that I too dre ...[text shortened]... ing that part of my life. The only person you are belittling with your tactics here is yourself.

We all lose people close to us, that is the way life is, none of us is promised
tomorrow.

Your comparison to Christians can only occur if they are as fake as your
28 years, since you now reject what you had during those 28 years as
real.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
But I haven't lied about anything. I have not claimed to have been a fake Christian. I was sincere. I was certain. It was real to me at that time. I am not claiming that you are a fake Christian. I am not claiming you are insincere. I am not saying I was exactly the same as you back then. I am simply telling you that we were both Christians. Smearing me as a "liar" doesn't alter this one little bit, even if it gives you some personal satisfaction.

I'm sure it was real for you at the time, then it wasn't.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
We all lose people close to us, that is the way life is, none of us is promised tomorrow.

And I have belittled nobody who has lost people close to them. As I said, when I was a Christian, at times of bereavement, I too drew strength from my faith and beliefs. Your attempts to score points with blows below the belt are in vain. It is now your dignity that is under threat in this dialogue, not mine.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm sure it was real for you at the time, then it wasn't.

Well, I am an ex-Christian now, if that's what you are getting at. I haven't lied about anything. That you are resorting to saying such things creates information about who you are and what your human spirit is like.

Originally posted by FMF
And I have belittled nobody who has lost people close to them. As I said, when I was a Christian, at times of bereavement, I too drew strength from my faith and beliefs. Your attempts to score points with blows below the belt are in vain. It is now your dignity that is under threat in this dialogue, not mine.

Neither have I. I do take exception of you claiming you were a Christian like
those who know the Lord.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Your comparison to Christians can only occur if they are as fake as your
28 years, since you now reject what you had during those 28 years as
real.

Twenty years ago I was a Christian who had people close to him pass away. And I knew other Christians who had people close to them pass away. I also saw non-Christians and ex-Christians pass away. You will not succeed in belittling me over the issue of family and friends dying and the nature of my bereavement or my attitude to death at those times. Try as you might, you are going to achieve nothing by simply trying to smear me.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I am an ex-Christian now, if that's what you are getting at. I haven't lied about anything. That you are resorting to saying such things creates information about who you are and what your human spirit is like.

You said you were a Christian like those who are, since you deny what
Christians have which is Jesus Christ that cannot be true. You may have
believed, but you never knew.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I do take exception of you claiming you were a Christian like those who know the Lord.

Clearly so. Hence all this attempted nasty stuff about what you claim I am doing to people who have lost family and friends.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You said you were a Christian like those who are, since you deny what
Christians have which is Jesus Christ that cannot be true. You may have
believed, but you never knew.

I haven't lied about anything.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You said you were a Christian like those who are, since you deny what
Christians have which is Jesus Christ that cannot be true. You may have
believed, but you never knew.
Kelly

Respectfully, I disagree.
When we position ourselves as the faithful, essentially, we are putting ourselves in charge of our faith... putting the onus on us.
Our parts are small, really.
Our strength, smaller still.
I will not make it to the end of this life abiding in faith in Christ on the merits of my stubborn iron will.
I will abide by the graciousness of His gifts.

I do not doubt--- not for a second--- the sincerity of FMF's former faith.
I see it in snapshot, in bygone memories, as though it were me within the frames.
Perhaps he is made of material more stout than me, but I have always been fearful of losing my faith, of being rendered otherwise moribund.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Perhaps he is made of material more stout than me, but I have always been fearful of losing my faith, of being rendered otherwise moribund.

I do not see myself as courageous at all ~ but instead rather more relieved and energized, even empowered. Perhaps your fearfulness has clouded your perspective on what is and is not moribund.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I'm calling you a liar, because you claim your FAKE Christian life is no
different than all of those who are Christians.
Kelly

You will call him a liar rather than accept that he is a Christian who has fallen away, this is very strange considering you have posted in this thread from Hebrews describing how Christians can fall away.

What is then the difference between a Christian who has fallen away and FMF who claims to be a Christian who is no longer a Christian? What would a Christian who has fallen away talk like - would thay say "I still believe" or would they say "I no longer believe"?

Originally posted by divegeester
You will call him a liar rather than accept that he is a Christian who has fallen away, this is very strange considering you have posted in this thread from Hebrews describing how Christians can fall away.

What is then the difference between a Christian who has fallen away and FMF who claims to be a Christian who is no longer a Christian? What would ...[text shortened]... allen away talk like - would thay say "I still believe" or would they say "I no longer believe"?

what if hes a liar who was never really a Christian, one must consider the possibilities.