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"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the sight of everybody…Do not take revenge, my friends, be leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written, “It is mine to revenge, I will repay.” (Romans 12:17-19)
"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)
14 Nov 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou are conflating two things God's redemption and a just recompense for our crimes in our justice systems.
"Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the sight of everybody…Do not take revenge, my friends, be leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written, “It is mine to revenge, I will repay.” (Romans 12:17-19)
"For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)
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14 Nov 23
@kellyjay said3 clear questions. Please keep your answers short and to the point:
You are conflating two things God's redemption and a just recompense for our crimes in our justice systems.
1) If every birth and death belongs to God, why are you in favour of capital punishment?
2) If you (and everyone else) are as sinful as a murderer or rapist, who are we to execute anyone?
3) Why can't you leave justice to God and the final judgement? Murderers and rapists will face eternal punishment for their crimes, so why the need to execute them in the here and now? Why do you call for death rather than other forms of recompense and punishment?
14 Nov 23
@ghost-of-a-duke said1 we are all known by our actions and all of our actions have consequences some require law enforcement and time in court. Depending on verdict and sentencing we are held accountable for our actions in the here and now. If someone dies as a result of capital punishment then that is how they die.
3 clear questions. Please keep your answers short and to the point:
1) If every birth and death belongs to God, why are you in favour of capital punishment?
2) If you (and everyone else) are as sinful as a murderer or rapist, who are we to execute anyone?
3) Why can't you leave justice to God and the final judgement? Murderers and rapists will face eternal pu ...[text shortened]... in the here and now? Why do you call for death rather than other forms of recompense and punishment?
2 Everyone sins, we have no hope for restoration with God, no number of good works or personal holiness would be considered enough. Remember one act of rebellion turned a very good creation into what we see today. We can not reach up, but God reached down to us. None of that has anything to do with our judicial system and processes. You don’t get to steal and claim God forgives and are left off the hook.
3 A just recompense, not vengeance if the law calls for it, then that is what it is called for. Every single person Christ died for so without exception for Jesus sake not theirs I hope they go to Him. Listening to the news they were talking about how a family was attacked, they killed the father, kept the wife alive raping her long enough to listen to their baby die, because they put them in the oven and turned it on. I pray for them because Jesus died for them, but if justice is done they should forfeit the ability to breathe.
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14 Nov 23
1 edit
@kellyjay saidWhy death Kelly?
1 we are all known by our actions and all of our actions have consequences some require law enforcement and time in court. Depending on verdict and sentencing we are held accountable for our actions in the here and now. If someone dies as a result of capital punishment then that is how they die.
2 Everyone sins, we have no hope for restoration with God, no number of good ...[text shortened]... them because Jesus died for them, but if justice is done they should forfeit the ability to breathe.
We have a justice system in the UK that doesn't involve capital punishment. Convicted murderers and rapists are not 'let off the hook."
14 Nov 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSo if they did something like that in UK you can pay keeping them alive while incarcerated. I guess your justice system is safer to be in unlike the healthcare system, if what I heard about parents fighting to keep their child alive is true.
Why death Kelly?
We have a justice system in the UK that doesn't involve capital punishment. Convicted murderers and rapists are not 'let off the hook."
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14 Nov 23
@kellyjay saidKellyjay, this is a legitimate observation and question which you are ignoring.
I believe in law.
You believe that non Christians will be burnt alive in hell as punishment.
Why can’t your version of God forgive them the same way you are exhorting this hypothetical rape victim to forgive their assailant?
@kellyjay saidIsn't a society paying to keep them alive in prison - instead of the government killing them - a hallmark of a civilization that actually walks the walk on the 'thou must not kill' front - as opposed to a kind of vengeful error-prone barbarism that has more than a whiff of hypocrisy?
So if they did something like that in UK you can pay keeping them alive while incarcerated.
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15 Nov 23
KellyJay claims that a person raped should forgive their rapist because it’s good for them, but also holds that Jesus is perfectly justified in not forgiving the billions of non Christian because they don’t believe in him and subsequently burning them alive in an eternal horror of extremist judgment.
If the rape victim forgives the rapist but remains an atheist they still get thrown into this apocalyptic eternal genocide. If the rapist becomes a Christian they are forgiven by KellyJay’s God.
What utterly embarrassing intellectually amoral nonsense.
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15 Nov 23
@fmf saidHard to argue with that.
Isn't a society paying to keep them alive in prison - instead of the government killing them - a hallmark of a civilization that actually walks the walk on the 'thou must not kill' front - as opposed to a kind of vengeful error-prone barbarism that has more than a whiff of hypocrisy?
15 Nov 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat is the difference between killing the unborn because the government says it is okay and keeping a murder well feed for the rest of their natural life?
Hard to argue with that.
16 Nov 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidAnother point, no crime in the OT or NT recompense was ever lessened, they were all paid in full, even in God's grace, Jesus took paid in full for every sin, every bit of shame. Your mob example showed that Jesus did not come to condemn but to save sinners while He was here. At no time did He address human criminal systems, mob rule yes, notice only the woman was brought not the man as well.
Why death Kelly?
We have a justice system in the UK that doesn't involve capital punishment. Convicted murderers and rapists are not 'let off the hook."
@kellyjay saidAnd... er... this justifies, in your mind ~ according to your Christian perspective ~ capital punishment and answers Ghost of a Duke's question? Or am I right in deducing that you are simply trying to tip-toe away from his question under the cover of the little cloud of words you've typed in the above post?
Another point, no crime in the OT or NT recompense was ever lessened, they were all paid in full, even in God's grace, Jesus took paid in full for every sin, every bit of shame. Your mob example showed that Jesus did not come to condemn but to save sinners while He was here. At no time did He address human criminal systems, mob rule yes, notice only the woman was brought not the man as well.