The danger of a morality based on religion

@secondson said
If God exists, and His attributes and characteristics can be known, then the knowledge of such a being could not have come by natural means, that such knowledge would come by revelation.

I think it is you who is thinking inside your box.

@fmf said
I think human consciousness is one of the strongest bits of evidence that theists have for their belief in supernatural causality.

Interesting. A crack in the wall. 🎯 🙂

@fmf said
Maybe brain size and capacity; opposable thumbs; humans' social nature.

Speculation.

@secondson said
Interesting. A crack in the wall.

What are you on about? I said this to you a couple of months ago. I said it to you about four months ago. I said it to in the early part of the year, several times. I said it to you about six times in 2018. I said it to you maybe 6-8 times in 2017.

@secondson said
Speculation.

Exactly.

@fmf said
I think it does. I think it answers it very well.

If the idea of a creator being is without merit or substance in reality, it is an illusion.

Since you claim that religion is a fabrication of the natural on the mind of man, how is it then that the natural can produce the concept of a God except it be an illusion of reality?

What you're saying is essentially that man is insane to deduce from reality the idea of a creator being.

I don't think your perspective answers the question relative to the cause of religion, only more speculations.

@fmf said
I think the natural world and human consciousness are the best evidence that theists have for their belief in a creator being.

What else is there?

There is creator, and there is everything else that is not.

@secondson said
What you're saying is essentially that man is insane to deduce from reality the idea of a creator being.

No I am not. If you want to know what I am saying "essentially", then just read what I wrote.

@secondson said
Since you claim that religion is a fabrication of the natural on the mind of man, how is it then that the natural can produce the concept of a God except it be an illusion of reality?

Don't you believe that all religions - aside from your own - are fabrications?

@secondson said
I don't think your perspective answers the question relative to the cause of religion, only more speculations.

All we are doing is sharing our perspectives based on our speculation.

@secondson said
What else is there?

Well there are all the supposedly "revealed" religions that billions of humans cite as "knowledge" of a creator being.

@fmf said
Yes, we speculate about such things. I believe religions are founded on human speculation. Humans developed religions. I don't see religions as embodying "knowledge", aside from "knowlegde" of their own mythologies and doctrines.

No, you speculate. That essentially makes you a religionist.

That religions are a product of speculation based on cultural, psychological, anthropological and other influences, so are your speculations.

That your mind is closed to the supernatural, you are confined to the natural and subject to the vagaries of the influences of the natural only, making you a product of a religious-like think mode.

To speculate that the only knowledge available is by the natural is as religious as it gets, and is indicative of a closed mind bent on explaining man's existence based on a closed system contained within the natural and material.

@secondson said
I believe the ideology of atheistic communism is responsible for more mass murder in the last century than any other ideology in the past 2000 years combined.

Notice how they just ignore us and the facts.

Very telling

@secondson said
No, you speculate. That essentially makes you a religionist.

Religion is belief in/worship of a supernatural controlling power. You don't seem to know what the word "teligionist" means.

@secondson said
That religions are a product of speculation based on cultural, psychological, anthropological and other influences, so are your speculations.

Exactly. We agree on this.