The Eternal Son of God

@kellyjay said
Not so, but you will never know until God shows you in this life, when you repent
and turn to Him, seeking Him with all of your heart, or you die and you are
confronted with Him when all hope of reconciliation has been dried up and gone.

I am well aware of these beliefs of yours and how they stem from the god figure that you just so happen to worship. I am not looking for "reconciliation" with a supernatural being that you believe in and that I don't.

@fmf said
You said:

Different perspectives are defined by people viewing things differently, so looking at the same data or hearing what someone else says may not be enough, no matter what authorities are invoked on any given topic to alter another’s thinking.

And I asked: How do you think the God that you worship handled the facet of human nature that you describe above?

Unlike our perspectives on the universe, what red looks like, how much is 1+1, with
God it is different, God enters our lives, actually enters them and changes us from
the inside out. Our perspectives get changed with this, because the life of God has
entered us, the truth of God is revealing Himself to us, the Way of God is shown to
us by the Spirit of God it isn't simply a mental acceptance of a Biblical text.

There are many people who can know the scriptures, they can argue the points
and be scripturally correct, that doesn't mean that they know God, people can
give their lives up that doesn't mean they know the Lord, without Love we are
nothing. Without God's Spirit we do not belong to God, the scriptures point to
God they themselves if we agree with them or not, are not God.

1 Corinthians 13 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Way of Love
13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

@kellyjay said
Unlike our perspectives on the universe, what red looks like, how much is 1+1, with
God it is different, God enters our lives, actually enters them and changes us from
the inside out. Our perspectives get changed with this, because the life of God has
entered us, the truth of God is revealing Himself to us, the Way of God is shown to
us by the Spirit of God it isn't simp ...[text shortened]... fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

The trouble with your utterly parochial and self centred view of you and your God is that there are literally billions and billions of people who aren't members of your religion. Do you really believe that they are going to be tossed into a "Lake of Fire" and suffer "eternal torment" for not having the same belief in the Jesus story that you have?

@kellyjay said
There are many people who can know the scriptures, they can argue the points
and be scripturally correct, that doesn't mean that they know God, people can
give their lives up that doesn't mean they know the Lord, without Love we are
nothing. Without God's Spirit we do not belong to God, the scriptures point to
God they themselves if we agree with them or not, are not God.

Why would a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu argue with you about the scriptures of your religion?

@kellyjay said
You also are failing to grasp it is not us you are belittling when you use that term
either, your lack of belief is an affront to God.

Good. So you do not feel belittled. And SecondSon does not feel insulted. Me using a neutral term is working out OK then.

@divegeester said
Do shut up with your boring, self-righteous sanctimonious drivel Josephw.

Do shut up with your troll drivel, you boring identityless purveyor of heretical and unbiblical doctrine.

From now on you're retseegevid the troll. The younger brother of the clan Emerod the Horrible.

@fmf said
Good. So you do not feel belittled. And SecondSon does not feel insulted. Me using a neutral term is working out OK then.

It's "working out OK" for now. As long as you keep shaking you fist to the sky and are still alive you can consider it because of God's long suffering and patience with you.

The Eternal Son of God

The teaching that the Son of God is without "office" after He delivers up the kingdom to His God and Father, doesn't hold up.

We have glimpses into the eternal age after all the enemies of the Son of God have been subdued. These scenes do not at all portray the office of the Son of God is no more.

Revelation 21,22 are those glimpses into eternity. A picture is worth a thousand words. There we see the Son of God has a number of continued ministries or "offices".

1.) He is a reigning King on a throne.

" ... the throne of God and of the Lamb ... " (22:1)

If it is the [SINGULAR] " throne of God and of the Lamb the prophecy is still trying to impress us of a distinction between Father and Son.

Also in verse 3 -

"And there will no longer be a curse. And the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His slaves will serve Him."

2.) The Lamb is a Husband to the eternal city.

"And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (22:2)

Understand that this city is people transformed, transfigured and built up in life and love symbolically portrayed.

The fact both God and her husband - the Son of God, are mentioned shows distinction between the Father and the Son.

3.) The Lamb of God (the Son) is the lamp holding the light.

"And the city had no need of the sun or of the moon that they should shine it it, for the glory of God illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb." (21:23)

Here within the Lamb is the light and glory of God shining out. The Son of God is still in an "office" so to speak of embodying the glory of the Father, being the lamp of the light of God,

This is distinction yet coinherance - One living in the Other. There is no discarding of the the Son's office in eternity.

4.) The Son with the Father are the living TEMPLE of the city.

" And I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." (21:22)

The temple of God is both the dwelling place of God and the place for man to enter to worship God. Here the eternal temple is the temple of God "the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb."

DIstinction is revealed here - God Almighty and the Lamb (the Redeemer Son of God). Mysteriously together they are the dwelling place of God and the place of the contacting of God by the saved - the eternal temple.

5.) The Son is the dispenser of eternal life. The river of water of life proceeds out from the throne of God and the Lamb (the Redeemer Son).

"And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street." (22:1)

The "street" - one of pure transparent gold, signifies the WALK, the way to live. The way to live now and in eternity is to live by the dispensing of God's Holy Spirit from the seat of His adminstration - His throne. Out of His authority God and the Son of God, the Lamb - continue to pour out into His people the Holy Spirit.

In the middle of the street means the way the walk goes is the way the Spirit flows. The flowing of the Holy Spirit directs the walking of the saved.

This is not to be put off until eternity. This should be the life and walk of the Christian from the time she or he is born of God and on into the millennial age and beyond into eternity.

The point is that the eternal Son is eternally functioning in His eternal "offices" which have not been made obsolete.

@secondson said
Do shut up with your troll drivel, you boring identityless purveyor of heretical and unbiblical doctrine.

From now on you're retseegevid the troll. The younger brother of the clan Emerod the Horrible.

Does this mean you are no longer praying for me Joseph?

@sonship said
The Eternal Son of God

The teaching that the Son of God is without "office" after He delivers up the kingdom to His God and Father, doesn't hold up.

We have glimpses into the eternal age after all the enemies of the Son of God have been subdued. These scenes do not at all portray the office of the Son of God is no more.

Revelation 21,22 are those ...[text shortened]... the eternal Son is eternally functioning in His eternal "offices" which have not been made obsolete.

Who is your current mentor at the Local Church who monitors your posts?

The Eternal Son of God

Revelation 21 and 22 are after the last judgment. Which means this is eternity following the Son delivering up the kingdom that God His Father may be all in all (1 Cor. 15:24) .

The eternity future ministry of the Son of God is evident there. But I also think the Son's eternal pre-existence is seen there as well

One very obvious and the other perhaps less so

.1) Christ is the same as the Beginning and the End which is Jehovah Gd the Almighty.

"Behold I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as hits work is.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." (Rev. 22:12,13)

The Son is God from eternity to eternity.

2.) The Son is not only the offspring of King David as his royal descendent, but the SOURCE of David as well.

[b]" I Jesus have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright morning star." (Rev. 22:16)

Praise God. Jesus is not only the royal descendant of David Israel't hero king. He is the ROOT and the SOURCE of all David was in a positive way. He was the root of David in all his best characteristics, not David's sins.

I think this points to Jesus being the Son of God incarnated from in eternity past.

@fmf said
The trouble with your utterly parochial and self centred view of you and your God is that there are literally billions and billions of people who aren't members of your religion. Do you really believe that they are going to be tossed into a "Lake of Fire" and suffer "eternal torment" for not having the same belief in the Jesus story that you have?

Well I am not looking for a religion that makes me feel good or one that shooths my conscience when it should not be. I am only interested in the truth not warm and fuzzy feelings, because life isn’t warm and fuzzy it has in it the good and very bad.

If you reject the truth because you don’t like it, then you are putting your feelings above truth. This does sound like what you have always done. If you don’t like the sound of something you reject it, so no matter what you are always shrinking the universe to how you feel about it.

@divegeester said
Who is your current mentor at the Local Church who monitors your posts?

None of your business.

Your business, if you can get focused, is to engage in the topics of discussion.

@fmf said
The trouble with your utterly parochial and self centred view of you and your God is that there are literally billions and billions of people who aren't members of your religion. Do you really believe that they are going to be tossed into a "Lake of Fire" and suffer "eternal torment" for not having the same belief in the Jesus story that you have?

The billions and billions of people who reject God's Christ and their fate is of no concern of yours. Your concern should be with FMF and his fate for rejecting God's salvation which in Christ and no other.

The Word of God makes it perfectly clear that those who reject Christ and die in their sin will be separated from God in outer darkness forever, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, and "their worm dieth not".

Now, while it may be incomprehensible to you that untold billions will suffer a fate worse than death, if a man that was crucified, died, buried and resurrected says so, I believe him.

@fmf said
Why would a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu argue with you about the scriptures of your religion?

Moslem / Christian debate
YouTube

Jew / Christian debate

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=Jew+Christian+debate#id=2&vid=4d793ecabba45caaa63c519f47138dcd&action=click

Hindu / Christian debate

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=Hindu+Christian+debate#id=2&vid=dafc7c03c43626158541837a46f1bfec&action=click