23 Aug 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyThanks for the sermon, Pops. But all I said was there was a general location of Eden shown in Genesis. I was ready to reveal the secret password (gen2:10-14) but apparently you figured it out. Good for you.
I have read Genesis, many times. And I recognize it as a powerful legend that imparts a compelling message.
The passage describing the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:8-14) refers to four rivers which no longer exist, if they
ever did exist. The present day Tigris and Euphrates may or may not have any connection with the fictional
"Tigris" and "Euphrates" ...[text shortened]... our argument. You might learn a few things
if you dusted off your brain instead of your Bible.
Originally posted by moonbusYou are assuming he was mortal. But if he was mortal, then how would eating a forbidden fruit make him mortal? Where is the cause and effect?
Adam was mortal, right? So Adam would surely have died anyway eventually, even if he hadn't eaten the forbidden fruit. So what's the point of God's telling him "you're going to die SOMEDAY if you eat it"?
Nor do I see any sense in saying that it means something like "you will start dying (slowly) on the day you eat it." If Adam was mortal, then he starte ...[text shortened]... o and I, God, have my own reasons for this which you, man, dare not question."
Comments ... ?
23 Aug 14
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterI think you are being somewhat literal minded, and will only focus on what you believe it means... or what you wish for us to believe you think it means.
No. Here is what you posted:
Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]"the day" means the day he eats of that fruit. It doesn't mean he will die on that day. Cause and effect. If you do this, then that will surely happen. If I say you will surely die, it doesn't mean you will die right now. It just means that it will surely happen.
Are you ...[text shortened]... that when God said "on THIS day you will surely die" that he was being in some way allegorical?[/b]
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by lemon limeYou seemed to be contradicting what you'd said earlier about the literalness of genesis in that post of yours which I replied to; you were indicating that what was written was not was was actually meant.
I think you are being somewhat literal minded, and will only focus on what you believe it means... or what you wish for us to believe you think it means.
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyThere is a good deal of misanthropicized vanity here along with unfunny banter which sometimes strikes me as simply wretched rather than spiritual, but I do think that Christians are entitled to self-identify as Christians and people can simply make what they will of their forum fruits.
Then I came to the right place, didn't I? The clan of counterfeit Christians.
I have taken the liberty of coining a brand new English word in order to express this opinion.
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterPin me down on what, it is a story, names and places are given so unlike
Thank for the reference to page 18; I think you are referring to this post by yourself:
"I'm not interested in going through every single basic metaphor and
simile in the Bible with you or anyone else. I do believe there are
metaphors and similes in the Bible, but I also believe that some stories
are stories because they speak of real events."
...[text shortened]... re smilies and metaphors in scripture.
Which is your position, you cannot have it both ways.
the other things you talked about, I take that mean it occurred. Therefore
the names and places are real.
Kelly
24 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterYou seem to be confirming what you appear to be trying to accomplish here.
You seemed to be contradicting what you'd said earlier about the literalness of genesis in that post of yours which I replied to; you were indicating that what was written was not was was actually meant.
Originally posted by divegeesteral·le·go·ry
No. Here is what you posted:
Originally posted by lemon lime
[b]"the day" means the day he eats of that fruit. It doesn't mean he will die on that day. Cause and effect. If you do this, then that will surely happen. If I say you will surely die, it doesn't mean you will die right now. It just means that it will surely happen.
Are you ...[text shortened]... that when God said "on THIS day you will surely die" that he was being in some way allegorical?[/b]
a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
"Pilgrim's Progress is an allegory of the spiritual journey"
synonyms: parable, analogy, metaphor, symbol, emblem
"Saramago's latest novel is an allegory of social disintegration"
a symbol.
Are you saying that when God said "on THIS day you will surely die" that he was being in some way allegorical?
No.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis%202:17
Originally posted by FMFMisanthropicized. Or should it be misanthropicised?
There is a good deal of misanthropicized vanity here along with unfunny banter which sometimes strikes me as simply wretched rather than spiritual, but I do think that Christians are entitled to self-identify as Christians and people can simply make what they will of their forum fruits.
I have taken the liberty of coining a brand new English word in order to express this opinion.
Do you think robbie and limeboy would still be rude and obnoxious if they were atheists?
Originally posted by divegeesterI wasn't contradicting what I said, I was contradicting what you said.
You seemed to be contradicting what you'd said earlier about the literalness of genesis in that post of yours which I replied to; you were indicating that what was written was not was was actually meant.
Apparently there are two ways of interpreting this passage, and you seem determined to take advantage of this apparent discrepancy. But there is no discrepancy when the passage is taken in context, and not out of context as you have done.
"in the day that you" simply refers to the day of something happening, and in this case it means "in the day" you eat of the fruit. It does not mean you will "die in that day", which should be obvious because Adam did not die that very same day. So if he didn't die that very same day, then what do you suppose the writer was talking about?
Apparently you have chosen for it to mean a person will die the same day he partakes of the forbidden fruit. I don't know why you would think that, because if Adam lived after that (but did eventually die) that should have clued you into some other meaning (intended by the writer) being the most likely.
I've played along with you so far, but it seems this is as far as you are willing or able to go. I thought you might be leading up to something else, but it appears this is it.
Originally posted by HandyAndyMaybe they would be. It is the internet that empowers them here [whilst relegating personal inhibition] I think, and not so much their religionist doctrine ~ although the combination of vanity and religiosity, and its impact on interpersonal communication, is perhaps a whole interesting topic all of its own. Grampy Bobby would make an interesting witness/exhibit/case study on that issue.
Do you think robbie and limeboy would still be rude and obnoxious if they were atheists?
My point was that I think people with the demeanour of the likes of lemon lime, Suzianne, FreakyKBH and robbie carrobie are entitled to declare and assert themselves as being Christians and meanwhile I am better off just observing [and engaging] what seems to make them tick and how they interact ~ and thus evaluating Christianity-in-action in that way ~ rather than trying to work out whether they, as proponents or adherents, are genuine or counterfeit.