23 Aug 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyYou said:
Take a closer look at the question. Notice the phrase "right away," as in "at least not right away"
referenced in your post. Stop trying to be cute. Think a minute before you bang out a quick answer.
Doesn't living to the age of 930 qualify as not dying right away?
So are you saying that when Satan lied to Eve he wasn't really lying? Are you okay with half truths and truths mingled with lies in order to mislead people?
Stop trying to be clever and think a minute before you bang out a quick question.
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyActually, I do know. In fact I saw it today... after my long walk to the bookshelf. It wasn't hard to find, it's near the part about eating the forbidden fruit and etc etc.
In other words, you don't know.
So how's Google been working out for you? Are you still able to find out about stuff you want to see?
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by lemon limeSo where was it?
Actually, I [b]do know. In fact I saw it today... after my long walk to the bookshelf. It wasn't hard to find, it's near the part about eating the forbidden fruit and etc etc.
So how's Google been working out for you? Are you still able to find out about stuff you want to see?[/b]
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by lemon limeYou introduced the issue when you claimed that the writer of Genesis gave the location to prove that the Garden of Eden wasn't imaginary. The truth is that he didn't know where it was, and neither do you. The Flood changed everything.
It's a secret. What's the secret password?
"The key is in recognizing that through the Flood of Noah's day, "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (II Peter 3:6). As described in Genesis 6-9, the Flood would have totally restructured the surface of the globe. It would have done what major floods do — erode the land surface in one area and redeposit those sediments elsewhere. Biblically, the Flood covered the planet with processes operating at rates, scales, and intensities far beyond those possible today. No place on Earth could have survived untouched.
"These sediments would have been full of organic debris, which over time would either fossilize or metamorphose into oil and gas. The sediments would harden into sedimentary rock, in places bending into mountains or breaking along fault systems.
"Today, the Tigris-Euphrates River Valley contains sediments over two miles thick, from which are pumped enormous quantities of oil and gas. The sediments, now rock, are dramatically bent into modern mountains as well as subsurface mountains, and brutally broken by major fault systems. They deeply cover and obscure any possible pre-flood locations. Furthermore, the basement rock, if indeed it was present before the Flood, would have likely undergone erosion also. No present topography or underground surface could possibly bear any resemblance to the pre-flood world. That world is gone!"
--John D. Morris, Institute for Creation Research
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by lemon limeAdam knew better, he was standing right there, he should have
Right, all Adam had to do was to say [b]No... but as I'm sure you already know it can often be difficult* to say 'no' to a woman.
*problematic[/b]
protected her!
I agree it is hard to say 'no' to women, I'm so glad my wife has no issues
telling my daughters no, I'd be in REAL trouble otherwise. 🙂
Kelly
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by divegeesterThe only scripture I'm going to provide is the only one that tells you
I've given you several examples of why it probably isn't a real tree and you have given none as to why it is. Can you provide some scriptural corroboration to back up your claim that it is a real tree? Or is you statement that you could be wrong, mere pious posturing?
it was a tree. Read Gen yourself, it said it was a tree in the story, I
believe it was a tree. You want to say otherwise, that is on you, I do not
care.
Kelly
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by KellyJayIt appears the conversation was between Eve and the serpent, but didn't include Adam. Adam was with her, but it doesn't appear he was aware of what Satan was saying to her. She was already aware of everything God had told Adam, so it's reasonable to assume either Adam told her or she was with Adam when He told her...
Adam knew better, he was standing right there, he should have
protected her!
I agree it is hard to say 'no' to women, I'm so glad my wife has no issues
telling my daughters no, I'd be in REAL trouble otherwise. 🙂
Kelly
Now I'll have to get up and make another journey to the bookshelf, because I don't remember the exact timeline of events, or I may have forgotten a detail or two. Anyway, I've always wondered why the serpent talked to Eve instead of talking to Adam, or to both of them at the same time.
23 Aug 14
1 edit
Originally posted by lemon limeGEN 3
It appears the conversation was between Eve and the serpent, but didn't include Adam. Adam was with her, but it doesn't appear he was aware of what Satan was saying to her. She was already aware of everything God had told Adam, so it's reasonable to assume either Adam told her or she was with Adam when He told her...
Now I'll have to get up and make an ...[text shortened]... d why the serpent talked to Eve instead of talking to Adam, or to both of them at the same time.
"6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."
He was with her.
Kelly
23 Aug 14
Originally posted by HandyAndyWow! You went to all that trouble, but still couldn't be bothered to look it up in Genesis to see for yourself.
You introduced the issue when you claimed that the writer of Genesis gave the location to prove that the Garden of Eden wasn't imaginary. The truth is that he didn't know where it was, and neither do you. The Flood changed everything.
"The key is in recognizing that through the Flood of Noah's day, "the world that then was, being overflowed with water, ...[text shortened]... o the pre-flood world. That world is gone!"
--John D. Morris, Institute for Creation Research
I wasn't talking about an exact location, and if you were to look and see what it says in Genesis you would see the name of rivers used as landmarks. At least one of those rivers still exists today. So the flood didn't entirely change everything, and wipe out all evidence of where the Garden must have been generally located.
But maybe you're right, maybe the surface of the earth has changed so drastically that the Garden could have been anywhere... in Scotland, in New Jersey, Hawaii, Alaska, the lost city of Atlantis, on Mars or Jupiter... the possibilities are endless.
23 Aug 14
3 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayI know Adam was with her, but before the verse you've shown here it appears Satan was only talking to Eve.
GEN 3
"6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it."
He was with her.
Kelly
But here is something else to consider. Adam and Eve were completely defenseless, because without a knowledge of good and evil they couldn't have even guessed anyone would try to deceive them... they had absolutely no concept of what 'deceit' was.
So it wouldn't have occurred to either one of them that someone was lying to them, or would lie to them. The idea of lying was completely foreign to them, so I don't believe either one of them would have been able to recognize it for what it really was. All they knew is what God had told them, but that is what got them into trouble... they knew what God had told them not to do, but they went ahead and did it anyway.
23 Aug 14
1 edit
Originally posted by lemon limeThey were not defenseless, they were told the truth and they were told
I know Adam was with her, but before the verse you've shown here it appears Satan was only talking to Eve.
But here is something else to consider. Adam and Eve were completely defenseless, because without a knowledge of good and evil they couldn't have even guessed anyone would try to deceive them... they had absolutely no concept of what 'decei ...[text shortened]... to trouble... they knew what God had told them not to do, but they went ahead and did it anyway.
a lie. There was a conflict of stories, one was to be believed, and one was
to be rejected. Now all things being equal they either trusted the serpent
or trust God, the thing that swayed them was what they wanted, not
who they trusted.
Edit:
Not unlike now, we will typically go with what we want, not always what
the truth is.
Kelly