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14 Oct 19
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@divegeester
Divegeester, I can see you wanting to "come back" to your great opening gambit in which you have much confidence.
But I really don't think I need to say more then I did in my last post.
The final conclusion of which was -
Any kind of lawyerly weasel wording you concoct to see if you can insert "Jesus in the lake of fire" into the mouths of Christians, is wicked and deceptive and wrong.
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14 Oct 19
@sonship saidAre you going to tell me which parts of Revelation are allegories or should I just presume you don’t know?
@divegeester
Divegeester, I can see you wanting to "come back" to your great opening gambit in which you have much confidence.
But I really don't think I need to say more then I did in my last post.
The final conclusion of which was -
Any kind of lawyerly weasel wording you concoct to see if you can insert "Jesus in the lake of fire" into the mouths of Christians, is wicked and deceptive and wrong.
15 Oct 19
@divegeester
Do the wicked burn in hell for eternity?
https://dausel.co/3s81dq
Click on that link above and once you land on the page, click where it says “I am not a robot”
And then you will be redirected to the youtube video that shows , complete explanation
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15 Oct 19
@nimaaf saidWelcome back to the forum oh gutless one.
@divegeester
Do the wicked burn in hell for eternity?
https://dausel.co/3s81dq
Click on that link above and once you land on the page, click where it says “I am not a robot”
And then you will be redirected to the youtube video that shows , complete explanation
- Joined
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- 13080
Are you going to tell me which parts of Revelation are allegories or should I just presume you don’t know?
I don't care what you assume or how persistently you congratulate yourself.
Here are a few things which are literally to be taken in Revelation. The list is not exhaustive.
The last days of the great tribulation will be three and one half years.
There will be a resurrection and rapture of deceased overcoming Christians before it starts.
There will be a rapture of living overcomers before it starts.
The majority of Christians will be left after these sudden raptures to pass through the last three and one half years.
The Antichrist will appear as one who died and was reanimated.
The false prophet will assist him with miracles and an idol.
Multitudes will be persecuted by these two and their followers.
The Christians and Jews will be particularly the target of Antichrist for persecution, suffering, persecution, starvation, torture, death.
Christiandom will be destroyed. Christ in men and women will not.
The Roman Catholic Church will be destroyed. Christianity as an world wide organization will be destroyed. Christians with Christ in them will not be destroyed but forced to flourish under persecution.
Nature will be in a upheaval and demonic and occult forces will be unleashed on earth more strongly then ever before.
The earth will become no more a habitable place for man to live.
Antichrist, the false prophet and their armies will go to eternal torment.
There will be a river of blood miles long because of so much death.
Nature will be in turmoil in the sun, stars, moon, weather, seas, rivers. It will be terrible.
The kingdoms of the world will become the kingdom of God and Christ.
The first period of Christ's reign over the planet will last a thousand years and some of His people through the ages will be there to reign with Him.
Martyred believers during the last three and one half years will reign as co-kings with Christ.
Israel will recognize her Messiah in Jesus. And they will be priests helping the nations to worship God.
Satan will be bound for one thousand years but released afterwards for a short time. He will be destroyed forever.
There will be a final judgment of all the dead. Some will go into eternal punishment. Some will be sons of God and some will be left to be reigned over by the sons of God. New Jerusalem will be God and man united as the capital of a new creation.
The new heaven and new earth will commence the eternal age.
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15 Oct 19
@sonship saidScripture references from Revelation please sonship.
@divegeester
Are you going to tell me which parts of Revelation are allegories or should I just presume you don’t know?
I don't care what you assume or how persistently you congratulate yourself.
Here are a few things which are literally to be taken in Revelation. The list is not exhaustive.
The last days of the great tribulation will be th ...[text shortened]... ed as the capital of a new creation.
The new heaven and new earth will commence the eternal age.
Just pick your top three things from Revelation that you think are not literal and your top three that are so we can compare.
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15 Oct 19
2 edits
Just pick your top three things from Revelation that you think are not literal and your top three that are so we can compare.
You are unresponsive to my requests. Don't think you can push me around to always meet yours.
Lopsided requests with YOUR interrogations of ME always having priority, are over.
No more, divegeester evades sonship. But divegeester demands an answer from sonship.
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15 Oct 19
@sonship saidOk let’s start again.
@divegeester
Just pick your top three things from Revelation that you think are not literal and your top three that are so we can compare.
You are unresponsive to my requests. Don't think you can push me around to always meet yours.
Lopsided requests with YOUR interrogations of ME always having priority are over.
No more, divegeester evades sonship. But divegeester demands an answer from sonship.
Is your version of Jesus literally in Hell in the presence of people who are being cast into the lake of fire?
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Ok let’s start again.
Start over ?
I don't care what you assume or how persistently you congratulate yourself.
Here are a few things which are literally to be taken in Revelation. The list is not exhaustive.
The last days of the great tribulation will be three and one half years.
There will be a resurrection and rapture of deceased overcoming Christians before it starts.
etc. etc.
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Just pick your top three things from Revelation that you think are not literal and your top three that are so we can compare.
As stated:
Divegeester's - Ie. "You jump through my hoops on demand.
I evade and ignore your requests whenever I see fit."
is OVER.
Give your alternative explanation of Revelation 20:10 without just shrugging "It is probably allegorical".
It is allegorical of WHAT specifically?
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15 Oct 19
@sonship saidStart a thread on it, I’m not interested in your deflections.
@divegeester
Give your alternative explanation of Revelation 20:10 without just shrugging "It is probably allegorical".
It is allegorical of WHAT specifically?
Here again is my opening gambit from page one:
Your version of Jesus is in hell overseeing the Eternal burning alive of non Christians.
This is what this thread contends, so kindly either address this claim, palm it off as unspecified “allegories” or continue to duck and dodge the OP.
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@divegeester
Been there. Done that.
So when your secretive non-existent counter argument gets exposed you tell me to go start another thread.
The same weaknesses of your position are likely to be re-exposed on another thread. "Argument by no interest" does nothing to help your case.
If Jesus says "Go AWAY from Me [you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels] " in Matthew 25:41 the unmistakable implication is that where they are sent to GO AWAY - He will not be there WITH them.
Ask a first grader.
What about the sense of God's awareness being of everything and everywhere? Is He away from them in that sense? Maybe not.
Divegeester hates eternal fire / eternal punishment and wants to get the Christian to say that Jesus will be there forever with the cursed.
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Your version of Jesus is in hell overseeing the Eternal burning alive of non Christians.
No, the doctrine of the Christian New Testament is that on the cross Christ was made sin on our behalf. There He participated in a awful curse from the Divine Judge upon the sin of man.
Divegeester wants to say, Ie. " I will make your Jesus participate in the eternal punishment by standing around enjoying it as it takes place. This is what I will insert into your own mouth."
The closest thing in reality to Jesus being WITH the damned is that on His cross He came under the wrath of God and bore in Himself the judgment for all sin.
We do not know what that meant for Him. We do know that He asked that this cup of experience be removed from Him, if it was possible for the God for Whom all things are possible.
It was not the simple death He dreaded. It was separation from God under divine wrath and judgment, a curse, He wanted not to partake in. But He did. Because He said it was to be NOT as He willed but as His Father willed.
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?" (Matt. 27:45,46; comp Psalm 22:1)
There is no need then forever for Jesus the Savior to be with the eternally condemned forever. In some sense He already partook of a divine penalty on behalf of everyone.
And He rose to be the exalted Lord of all forever.