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Here’s what you admitted. Finally ...
Another lie from you that I FINALLY admitted something.
Practically every time I have discussed the book of Revelation throughout the years here I have said that Revelation 1:1 says the things were made known by signs.
"Oh, you FINALLY said there are allegories in the book of Revelation" .
You're just drunk with phony self congratulations.
I also wrote in this silly repetitive discussion "How much of a lake of fire is a lake of fire may be an argument."
In other words - to WHAT degree we understand that physical geological figure may be up to discussion.
And in addition to that, I said, EVEN if it is 100% figurative (which I do not think it is) it does NOTHING as far as I am concerned to REMOVE impact that whatever it is, it is not good.
And in ADDITION to THAT, I wrote more than once, PROPHECY is often fulfilled in details of which we were plainly told - PLUS some unforeseen details of which we were not told.
In other words only on one level a physical lava lake of burning brimstone may be used by God to throw His enemies into. Yet, He has control over whatever ELSE He needs to control in the realm of which we are not told, auxiliary things will happen in connection with the fulfillment of His warning.
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What is the long and short of this? There is no exegesis that I know of that removes the dread of the prospect that God will punish forever those who require that divine dealing.
So if you, Divegeester, want to strut around that you have allegoricalized AWAY the awfulness of eternal damnation, you'll just have to strut around by yourself.
I do not acknowledge or own [edited] your sense of success that you have negated the biblical warning of conscious eternal punishment.
But if you think YOU have found a way to remove eternal punishment from the Bible, YOU go ahead and congratulate yourself in public.
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allegory: “a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.”
Suppose I allegorize the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima, sending leaflets down to the people beforehand -
"Warning, people of Hiroshima - an angry MUSHROOM cloud will destroy you all. This MUSHROOM cloud will sit on top of you right in the middle of the city. And everything under it and in its shadow will instantly turn to dust and ashes and shadows on the wall. Afterwards thousands will be sick of the taste of this furious poison MUSHROOM."
Have I REMOVED the dread from the reality of an atomic explosion destroying in fire the people, burning everything in its blast?
No.
Allegorization or poetic license DID NOT in this case, mean neutralization of horrible danger, destruction, death, and suffering of the atomic bomb exploding over that city.
@sonship said"Dread"?
Have I REMOVED the dread from the reality of an atomic explosion destroying in fire the people, burning everything in its blast?
Do you actually believe your stuff about people being supposedly tormented in burning flames for eternity instils "dread" in people who don't find it credible?
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"Dread"?
Do you actually believe your stuff about people being supposedly tormented in burning flames for eternity instils "dread" in people who don't find it credible?
Like I said. When you ask me questions it is not to gain undertanding. It is to show off how much you think that YOU understand.
Look macho man. I think Christ's words are effective to those who consider Him holistically.
"And I say to you My friends, Do not fear those who kill the body and afterwards have nothing more that they can do.
But I will tell you whom you should fear; fear Him who after killing has authority to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, fear this One." (Luke 12:4,5)
Now, O fearless atheist macho man, if you want to say others may be scardy cats, but not FMF, go ahead and boast that way.
That's OK with me. Some of us noticed that saying of Jesus, amid and among many wonderful and positive OTHER sayings of Jesus.
You have no regard for the authority and power of God? You have no need of justification, no need of redemption and forgiveness? You run with that then. See how it turns out for you.
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Folks,
Shall we all applaud FMF? He has no dread of judgment from God.
Give him a round of applause everyone ! him and pharaoh.
"But Pharoah said, Who is Jehovah that I should listen to His voice to let Israel go? I do not know Jehovah, and I also will not let Israel go." (Exodus 5:2) .
Pharaoh would be proud of you FMF.
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@sonship saidAllegories mean that the thing they are describing is not literal.allegory: “a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.”
Suppose I allegorize the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima, sending leaflets down to the people beforehand -
[i] "Warning, people of Hiroshima - an angry MUSHROOM cloud will destroy you all. This MUSHROOM ...[text shortened]... n of horrible danger, destruction, death, and suffering of the atomic bomb exploding over that city.
I am pleased that you seem to have finally come to your senses and realised that there cannot be a literal hell.
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@philokalia saidA very good question.
I wrote extensively about my views on hell back from lie page 10 to page 35.
How did I not answer that?
Intellectual dishonesty perhaps...
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@sonship saidYou said Revelation contains allegories.Here’s what you admitted. Finally ...
Another lie from you that I FINALLY admitted something.
Practically every time I have discussed the book of Revelation throughout the years here I have said that Revelation 1:1 says the things were made known by signs.
"Oh, you FINALLY said there are allegories in the book of Revelat ...[text shortened]... ich we are not told, auxiliary things will happen in connection with the fulfillment of His warning.
So it’s not literal.
Game over.
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@divegeester
Revelation 1:1 says things are going to be made known to the church by signs.
Is this the first time I ever said this?
Have I ever denied it?
The answer to the first question is - No. I've pointed to 1:1 before.
The answer to the second question is - No. I never denied a lake of fire is to be taken literally.
I did say "How much literally may be up for discussion."
And I did say "It hardly makes a difference to the solemnity of the warning."
It cannot be annhilation into non-existence.
And since this is all repetition again, once or twice or more over the years I have said - It is possible that what we are told about this eternal punishment is in terms of the WORST possible outcome. Ie. Revelation 14, 20 concerning Antichrist and his followers.
Sing Sing is a prison in New York State. Sing Sing could be described in terms of its worst possible compartments as a deterrent to anyone in danger of ending up there. Maybe some places in Sing Sing prison are not as bad as the worst places in Sing Sing.
To avoid the place entirely though, should be sought.
The same applies to the lake of fire - the second death - the Gehenna of fire.
@sonship saidDo you think your stuff about people being tormented in burning flames for eternity actually instils "dread" in people who don't find it credible?
Folks,
Shall we all applaud FMF? He has no dread of judgment from God.
You used the word "dread". I am asking you about it.
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You said Revelation contains allegories.
So it’s not literal.
Game over.
If you want to make that leap and claim victoriously "Game Over", then at least be CONSISTENT.
God will NOT reign forever and ever, Why? Well because Revelation contains ALLEGORIES. And therefore all across the board we should discount references to forever and ever without partiality.
" ... The kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15)
So in your brand of Christianity, there is no eternal forever and ever punishment. AND there is no eternal forever and ever reigning of God.
Does your allegory rule negate BOTH?
Or does your allegory rule just rule out what you don't like?
Does your detrimental allegory principle also render this verse not true ?
"And night will be no more and they have no need of the light of a lamp and of the light of the sun, for the Lord God will shine upon them, and they will reign forever and ever." (22:5)
1.) Are some not tormented "forever and ever" but others "reign forever and ever?"
OR
2.) None are tormented "forever and ever" and none reign "forever and ever" either, including God Himself - because Revelation contains allegories?