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Only took you 86 pages to finally boil down to “yes and no”...
Count how many pages before you answer this.
The rich man who died and went to Hades in Luke 16 - was he being tormented alive or was he being tormented having died ?
If he was not being tormented being "alive" then you are a liar, aren't you?
"The god who burns people alive for eternity"
Count the pages before you admit to being a slanderous liar against God, following you know who. Simple.
04 Oct 19
@sonship saidDon’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
@divegeesterOnly took you 86 pages to finally boil down to “yes and no”...
Count how many pages before you answer this.
The rich man who died and went to Hades in Luke 16 - was he being tormented alive or was he being tormented having died ?
If he was not being tormented being "alive" then you are a liar, aren't you?
[b]"The ...[text shortened]... t the pages before you admit to being a slanderous liar against God, following you know who. Simple.
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It’s a parable sonship 🙄
Around in circles.
You don't know that it is a parable. In no parable did Jesus ever specify someone's name. Ie. Lazarus.
Around in circles.
And even if it IS purely a fictional parable it does nothing for you to further your crusade that there is no such punishment of the physically dead.
And if there is no possibility of such an experience then Christ would be unrighteous to teach in such a manner that there WAS.
In a few months we'll be likely to go through this cycle again.
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Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
I understand that this is the state of the rich man in Hades - DEAD.
"And the begger DIED, and he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom." (v.22a)
So much for the beggar Lazarus. Now what about the rich man?
" ... and the rich man ALSO DIED and was BURIED."
I interpret that during the conversation they both, Lazarus and the rich man, and Abraham for that matter ... were deceased, dead.
Now the Bible does say that God is the God of the living. (Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38).
But it also says that He is "the God of the spirits of all flesh."
(Numbers 27:16).
When the immaterial part of man is separated from the material part, guess what? God is the God of the spirits of all flesh.
In addition He is the Judge of the living AND the dead. (2 Tim. 4:1; 1 Peter 4:5; Acts 10:42; )
Though He is God to all, the rich man didn't own him as his God.
The rich man rejected the prophets of God like his living brothers whom he did not want to come to that same place of torment.
"But he said, No, Father Abraham; but if some one resin from the dead would go to them, they will repent.
But he [Abraham] said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead." (vs. 30,31)
The perishing rich man wanted someone to go to the living, from the dead. Why? "For I have five brothers - so that he may solemnly testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment." (v.28)
Hades here, as well as a state, is a place. And there was a pleasant side "Abraham's bosom" and an unpleasant side of punishment. The two were seperated by an impassable fixed chasm (v.26)
04 Oct 19
1 edit
@sonship saidYour poor understanding of how and why one man ended up in torment means that you are doomed to fall into that same trap.
@KellyJay
Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
04 Oct 19
@sonship saidThere are different deaths spoken about in scripture when Jesus was speaking and said, "Before Abraham, I AM." and He said God was the God of the living, not the dead, these simple statements carry significant meaning. One Jesus was declaring who He was, and man's nature isn't limited to this lifetime.
@KellyJay
Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
I understand that this is the state of the rich man in Hades - DEAD.
"And the begger DIED, and he was carried away by t ...[text shortened]... an unpleasant side of punishment. The two were seperated by an impassable fixed chasm [b](v.26)
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05 Oct 19
@divegeester
I was not talking about circular logic.
I was referring to returning to objections that have been addressed before as if they have not.
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05 Oct 19
2 edits
@KellyJay
Mark 12:27 ?
New American Standard Bible
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."
Is there something here that shines light on what I wrote about Luke 16:19-31 ?
How does Mark 12:27 help me to understand what was going on with the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 ?
I'm all ears.