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04 Oct 19
@sonship saidOnly took you 86 pages to finally boil down to “yes and no”...
@Is the Lamb in hell overseeing the casting of non Christians into the lake of fire?
Yes or no?
So this is your fatal karate chop?
Okay, you want a YES or a NO.
YES and NO. How so sonship ???
It’s no wonder the lost remain lost
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@philokalia said“Haha”
Haha, actually, so many Christians have participated in this thread and told us why they believe what they believe.
I have explained my perspectives.
Perhaps they are not sastisfactory to you, but the fact remains: the passages about hell are universally interpreted as about hell by Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox.
Tell me, how should these passages be interpreted?
Can you explain them?
No , the few of you gutless, intellectually dishonest, ashamed of your own doctrine, lightweights have posted the usual obfuscation and read-around waffle that we always get with this type of awkward topic for you heller’s.
Basically in summation:
SecondSon:
- promises a considered thoughtful response and then disappears to wedding for about 3 days and return abusing me
- tells us it is all literal (Revelation) but qualifies it with it doesn’t mean what you say it means (referring to my copying pasting scripture).
- tells us Jesus isn’t in Hell, the Lamb isn’t in hell (gets shown scripture by ghost of Duke and disappears again for a few days
- comes back all tough guy and spiritual muscle and then disappears again, not seen since
Sonship:
- pages and pages and pages of waffle, convoluted nothingness dancing around the subject refusing to address the OP until on this page when he finally squeezes out a “yes” Jesus is in hell but also “no” Jesus isn’t in hell.
KellyJay
- we are all SO evil and God is SO holy that it’s amazing we are here at all and if was fair he would burn all of us alive.
- lots and lots of furball posts about the above
Philokalia
- metathink plus tells us that St Penis of Antioch knew the answer when he was perched on his roof 500 years ago and explained that while Revelation is all literal we are to absorb the writings of the ancient saints through meditation and recognise that blah blah blah.
Just answer the question in the OP succinctly and in a way that a non Christian could understand you.
Simple.
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Only took you 86 pages to finally boil down to “yes and no”...
Count how many pages before you answer this.
The rich man who died and went to Hades in Luke 16 - was he being tormented alive or was he being tormented having died ?
If he was not being tormented being "alive" then you are a liar, aren't you?
"The god who burns people alive for eternity"
Count the pages before you admit to being a slanderous liar against God, following you know who. Simple.
04 Oct 19
@sonship saidDon’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
@divegeesterOnly took you 86 pages to finally boil down to “yes and no”...
Count how many pages before you answer this.
The rich man who died and went to Hades in Luke 16 - was he being tormented alive or was he being tormented having died ?
If he was not being tormented being "alive" then you are a liar, aren't you?
[b]"The ...[text shortened]... t the pages before you admit to being a slanderous liar against God, following you know who. Simple.
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04 Oct 19
@sonship saidIt’s a parable sonship 🙄
@divegeester
The rich man who died and went to Hades in Luke 16 - was he being tormented alive or was he being tormented having died ?
If he was not being tormented being "alive" then you are a liar, aren't you?
Count the pages before you admit to being a slanderous liar against God, following you know who. Simple.
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04 Oct 19
1 edit
@kellyjay saidSo does sonship.
Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died.
If you could follow the various trains of thought in this thread and have the decency to reply to the bunch of people you are ignoring then you might have some impact.
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It’s a parable sonship 🙄
Around in circles.
You don't know that it is a parable. In no parable did Jesus ever specify someone's name. Ie. Lazarus.
Around in circles.
And even if it IS purely a fictional parable it does nothing for you to further your crusade that there is no such punishment of the physically dead.
And if there is no possibility of such an experience then Christ would be unrighteous to teach in such a manner that there WAS.
In a few months we'll be likely to go through this cycle again.
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Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
I understand that this is the state of the rich man in Hades - DEAD.
"And the begger DIED, and he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom." (v.22a)
So much for the beggar Lazarus. Now what about the rich man?
" ... and the rich man ALSO DIED and was BURIED."
I interpret that during the conversation they both, Lazarus and the rich man, and Abraham for that matter ... were deceased, dead.
Now the Bible does say that God is the God of the living. (Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38).
But it also says that He is "the God of the spirits of all flesh."
(Numbers 27:16).
When the immaterial part of man is separated from the material part, guess what? God is the God of the spirits of all flesh.
In addition He is the Judge of the living AND the dead. (2 Tim. 4:1; 1 Peter 4:5; Acts 10:42; )
Though He is God to all, the rich man didn't own him as his God.
The rich man rejected the prophets of God like his living brothers whom he did not want to come to that same place of torment.
"But he said, No, Father Abraham; but if some one resin from the dead would go to them, they will repent.
But he [Abraham] said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead." (vs. 30,31)
The perishing rich man wanted someone to go to the living, from the dead. Why? "For I have five brothers - so that he may solemnly testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment." (v.28)
Hades here, as well as a state, is a place. And there was a pleasant side "Abraham's bosom" and an unpleasant side of punishment. The two were seperated by an impassable fixed chasm (v.26)
04 Oct 19
1 edit
@sonship saidYour poor understanding of how and why one man ended up in torment means that you are doomed to fall into that same trap.
@KellyJay
Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
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04 Oct 19
@sonship saidI know it’s a parable because:
@divegeester
It’s a parable sonship 🙄
Around in circles.
You don't know that it is a parable. In no parable did Jesus ever specify someone's name. Ie. Lazarus.
Around in circles.
And even if it IS purely a fictional parable it does nothing for you to further your crusade that there is no such punishment of the physically dead.
And i ...[text shortened]... a manner that there WAS.
In a few months we'll be likely to go through this cycle again.
A) burning people alive is amoral
B) the doctrine of eternal suffering is also illogical
C) the doctrine is anti-Christ and incompatible with the rest of the gospel and other scriptures
It’s not circular logic sonship it’s common sense, moral coherence and biblical soundness
04 Oct 19
@sonship saidThere are different deaths spoken about in scripture when Jesus was speaking and said, "Before Abraham, I AM." and He said God was the God of the living, not the dead, these simple statements carry significant meaning. One Jesus was declaring who He was, and man's nature isn't limited to this lifetime.
@KellyJay
Don’t mean to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I believe he is alive after he died. God is the God of the living, Jesus said as much. Another reason why judgment should be a terror to those in their sims!
I understand that this is the state of the rich man in Hades - DEAD.
"And the begger DIED, and he was carried away by t ...[text shortened]... an unpleasant side of punishment. The two were seperated by an impassable fixed chasm [b](v.26)
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05 Oct 19
@divegeester
I was not talking about circular logic.
I was referring to returning to objections that have been addressed before as if they have not.
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05 Oct 19
2 edits
@KellyJay
Mark 12:27 ?
New American Standard Bible
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."
Is there something here that shines light on what I wrote about Luke 16:19-31 ?
How does Mark 12:27 help me to understand what was going on with the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 ?
I'm all ears.
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05 Oct 19
@sonship saidOk.
@divegeester
I was not talking about circular logic.
I was referring to returning to objections that have been addressed before as if they have not.
Well anyway, the example you posted was a “parable”.
You guys need to understand how parables, metaphors, similes and other rhetorical tools are used in the bible to convey simple messages.