The Gospel of Jesus vs The Gospel of Paul

Originally posted by @sonship
You sure sound rather sentimental and self congratulatory about how long you have been arguing with believers.

Most of the people I most love in the world are Christians. I can be sentimental about it, of course. Where you choose to describe what I said as "self-congratulatory", I would simply counter by saying that I was referring to the fact that I did not first encounter Christian ideas yesterday.

Originally posted by @thinkofone

I'm advocating for the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

No, you are advocating for the unbelievers in God's Son.
There is minuscule difference between your reaction to Jesus and the reaction of the audience seeking to kill Him in your favorite chapter - John 8.

You have taken up the cause of the very crowd to which He said, they were not abiding in His word and would die in their sins.

"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins." (John 8:24)

You have not cast in your lot with Jesus and His disciples.
You have cast in your lot with the rejecting Jews there, who disbelieved Christ's words.

You are advocating their unbelief and advocating rejection of the Son of God.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I 'do' happen to believe 'death is the end of existence', but that's beside the point.

The question is not about what happens after death (for Christians) but why innocent people (children or otherwise) are permitted to 'suffer' in this current life by a loving deity. Sorry, but even eternal life and happiness in death doesn't explain away or ju ...[text shortened]... r such a God merits your worship, or indeed even exists.

Or perhaps just needs a better plan.

This is an interesting point. I’d have to say suffering in the present world is a consequence of sin and man’s free will and the consequences of sin do not only afflict the guilty.
If God were to intervene in human affairs to the extent that He eliminated suffering, you’d essentially be asking for the world to be returned to its pre-fallen state when it was man, not God, who destroyed that state of perfection.

Originally posted by @romans1009
This is an interesting point. I’d have to say suffering in the present world is a consequence of sin and man’s free will and the consequences of sin do not only afflict the guilty.
If God were to intervene in human affairs to the extent that He eliminated suffering, you’d essentially be asking for the world to be returned to its pre-fallen state when it was man, not God, who destroyed that state of perfection.

As humans, we are quick to take credit when something good happens in our lives and quick to blame God when something bad happens. I think we’ve got it totally backwards.

Originally posted by @romans1009
As humans, we are quick to take credit when something good happens in our lives and quick to blame God when something bad happens. I think we’ve got it totally backwards.

I have found that many Christians, here at least, like to give their god figure credit when something good happens in their lives and many are inclined to cite it as hard evidence of the power of prayer. Do you not do this?

Originally posted by @fmf
I have found that many Christians, here at least, like to give their god figure credit when something good happens in their lives and many are inclined to cite it as hard evidence of the power of prayer. Do you not do this?

I was speaking of humans in general and not only Christians.
And I believe God hears our prayers and knows what is best for us, even when we think He is smiting us. Just as a bear with its paw caught in a steel trap will view a ranger looking to free the paw as trying to harm it, the ranger knows the bear has to go through pain to be healed. Our understanding is limited; God’s is not.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I was speaking of humans in general and not only Christians.

What religions do these "humans" have that you're talking about? You say they are quick to take credit when something good happens in their lives and quick to blame God when something bad happens. Which "God" are you talking about?

Originally posted by @romans1009
This is an interesting point. I’d have to say suffering in the present world is a consequence of sin and man’s free will and the consequences of sin do not only afflict the guilty.
If God were to intervene in human affairs to the extent that He eliminated suffering, you’d essentially be asking for the world to be returned to its pre-fallen state when it was man, not God, who destroyed that state of perfection.

Apologies but it is commonly known I do not communicate with Becker.

I appreciate you are a 'personage' in your own right, but as part of the unholy Trinty this 'Ghostly incommunicado' is also extended to your present incarnation.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Apologies but it is commonly known I do not communicate with Becker.

I appreciate you are a 'personage' in your own right, but as part of the unholy Trinty this 'Ghostly incommunicado' is also extended to your present incarnation.

So you wrote to me to say you’re not writing to me.

Originally posted by @fmf
What religions do these "humans" have that you're talking about? You say they are quick to take credit when something good happens in their lives and quick to blame God when something bad happens. Which "God" are you talking about?

Anyone who believes in God; the categorization into a specific religion isn’t important in the context of that reference.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Apologies but it is commonly known I do not communicate with Becker.

I appreciate you are a 'personage' in your own right, but as part of the unholy Trinty this 'Ghostly incommunicado' is also extended to your present incarnation.

Just realized you (again) avoided a discussion/debate on substance by referencing something non-substantive (in this case, your made-up idiocy that I’m someone else.)

That tool in your trolling toolbox is getting quite a workout!

Originally posted by @romans1009
Anyone who believes in God; the categorization into a specific religion isn’t important in the context of that reference.

Theists such as Hindus and Muslims and Sikhs, for example, as well? They take the credit for good/blame "God" for bad too, in the way you described, do they? Are you sure about that?

Originally posted by @fmf
Theists such as Hindus and Muslims and Sikhs, for example, as well? They take the credit for good/blame "God" for bad too, in the way you described, do they? Are you sure about that?

Not referring to every single human being currently alive. Was speaking in a generality. But let’s debate this frivolousness so you can avoid debating the broader point.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Not referring to every single human being currently alive. Was speaking in a generality. But let’s debate this frivolousness so you can avoid debating the broader point.

But the "broader point" you are attempting to assert is the problem. What you said, for example, simply rings false for Muslims and I have lived in a Muslim country for many years. In fact, to be honest, the "broader point" you seek to make rings false for the Christians I know as well. I don't think it is frivolous to resist bland generalizations that do not withstand scrutiny.

Originally posted by @fmf
But the "broader point" you are attempting to assert is the problem. What you said, for example, simply rings false for Muslims and I have lived in a Muslim country for many years. In fact, to be honest, the "broader point" you seek to make rings false for the Christians I know as well. I don't think it is frivolous to resist bland generalizations that do not withstand scrutiny.

Do you even know what the broader point is?