The Hagia Sophia

@philokalia said
Had no idea that my word choice would be put under a microscope in this thread -- what a grievous blunder on my part

Your word choice has been revealing. It seems worthy of discussion but you seem more intent on running away.

@philokalia said
BLM is a discussion about slavery?

More evasion.

@philokalia said
The Hagia Sophia, which is an extremely important site in Orthodoxy, what one might call a 'holy site,' continues to exist, and continues to be a source of controversy.

You're bigging it up again without any validation.
Now you are calling it a holy site?

@philokalia said
I do not know enough about him as a person. I had heard some rumors that he was imbalanced or some such.

But it was honestly hard to keep track of anything going on because we had guys with 90+ pages of posts in just the last 30 days during the height of his activity. It was truly a prolific amount of content that led almost nowhere, Tiger.

It was a flame war par e ...[text shortened]... zens & dozens of forums over the years.

That is why I always thought of it as a Time of Legends.

There was a two month period where I (deliberately) ignored every post he made and yet still, multiple times a day, he would troll my posts to ridicule personal information I had shared with the forum. (Work/education etc). Even ignoring him entirely for this length of time did not stop or lessen the trolling. How is it a flame war if only one side is throwing flames?

So I say again, there was nothing legendary about him.

@fmf said
Meanwhile, you get "personally insulted" about a building in Istanbul.

And isn't this just identity politics at its most contrived? A few years ago you weren't an Orthodox Christian yet. And now here you are, with your new brand identity expressed in terms of personal feelings of being insulted by events affecting members of your new religion.

Why would it be identity politics..?

Non-Orthodox people can also be offended by the use of the Hagia Sophia as a mosque. After all, the Syrian government has approved the construction of a smaller replica.

Many Catholics and Protestants were also upset by its reconversion to a Mosque.

In fact, I would think any Christian really interested in both their faith and the history of Christendom should be insulted by this.

And what is more personal than your religion?

@fmf said
Your word choice has been revealing. It seems worthy of discussion but you seem more intent on running away.

OK, I told y ou what I actually meant -- I found it to be very bad, and as a Christian, I take insults towards Christianity personally.

Feel free to keep discussing it and let me know if you need any more input from the source....

You & dive have at it.

...

But let me guess... I am somehow evading this now?

@fmf said
More evasion.

... I literally quoted your post and asked a question about your ridiculous phrasing, and I am evading.

🙄

@philokalia said
Why would it be identity politics..?

For the reason that I gave when I said that I think it's nothing more than a contrived kind of identity politics. That's why.

@philokalia said
... I literally quoted your post and asked a question about your ridiculous phrasing, and I am evading.

🙄

Yes, you mentioning BLM was just a red herring.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
There was a two month period where I (deliberately) ignored every post he made and yet still, multiple times a day, he would troll my posts to ridicule personal information I had shared with the forum. (Work/education etc). Even ignoring him entirely for this length of time did not stop or lessen the trolling. How is it a flame war if only one side is throwing flames?

So I say again, there was nothing legendary about him.

Come on, what about that isn't legendary?

Maybe I am from another generation, but I have been trolled extensively before, and I have to give credit to some of the crazy stamina of some of these guys.

But pound for pound, I've never seen anyone with that output.

@fmf said
Yes, you mentioning BLM was just a red herring.

You had mentioned

But a debate involving people who don't really want to address the moral dimensions of slavery, often because of their religious zealotry, IS occurring in America. Meanwhile, you get "personally insulted" about a building in Istanbul.

Who are the major parties in this discussion?

How would BLM be a red herring?

@philokalia said
OK, I told y ou what I actually meant -- I found it to be very bad, and as a Christian, I take insults towards Christianity personally.

How is it an "insult" to your Christianity? You only became a Christian recently. The building was a mosque for hundreds and hundreds of years. And now it is reverting to one after a few decades of secular use.

@philokalia said
Who are the major parties in this discussion?

I don't know how many "parties" there are on the far right in the U.S. who, to varying degrees, do not see slavery as having been morally unsound or who make various excuses on grounds of practicality and "realism". Two, three, five? I don't know. BLM isn't one of them.

@fmf said
For the reason that I gave when I said that I think it's nothing more than a contrived kind of identity politics. That's why.

Alright.

I don't find your argument compelling because Christians of many stripes, many nations, etc., can all be quite upset with what has happened with the Hagia Sophia. I do not believe that it rallies around any particular Christian identity, though certainly the situation is most near & dear to the heart of the Orthodox Christians, for whom this basically functioned not unlike a sort of Orthodox 'Vatican,' and who was constructed by a Saint.

You just seem intent on saying that my recent conversion would somehow disqualify me from this sentiment. What can I say? Yes, I became an Orthodox Christian rather recently. The process of even becoming an Orthodox Christian took 2.5 years for me, though, and was a time of great personal growth and enlightenment, and it is a pretty big part of my life.

I was largely inspired to do this after thinking more about my own mortality and the death of my best friend.

You can criticize this as much as you want --it helps me grow to remember how fresh I am in the Faith. There's a long way left to walk.