27 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Like the rest of the JWs you also would most likely (((((( not )))))) get on your knees with me and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
There is only 1 Jesus and he is the (((((((( SON )))))) of God. The scripture your quoting here clearly is saying that and Jesus only gets his position because his Father gives that to him or as this says (((((( exaulted him and bestowed it on him )))))))))
And yes his name is higher then any other name that is under him but he is still not Jehovah hi that you even quote from and you are blind to the words on that page...................
They too had plenty of explanations. But they refused to do what they should be happy to do, (((((((openly confess that Jesus is Lord,)))))) even on their knees.
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75What about Genesis where you refer to the Spirit od God as
Oh my...What does you Bible say in responce to the questions I just asked you. I'm not looking at anything myself right now but a Bible.
It seems your avoiding the questions because you can't answer them. Am I right?
Also if you look back at everyone of my post from day one here my friend I've never used postings from my Bible....
"God's active force". Point out to me any other Bible that translates
it like that other than the NWT.
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by jaywillDo you not have eyes and ears at all? Jesus is Lord exactly as the Bible says. But he is not the LORD.
Like the rest of the JWs you also would most likely [b](((((( not )))))) get on your knees with me and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
They too had plenty of explanations. But they refused to do what they should be happy to do, (((((((openly confess that Jesus is Lord,)))))) even on their knees.[/b]
27 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsGenesis 1:2 (New Living Translation)
What about Genesis where you refer to the Spirit od God as
"God's active force". Point out to me any other Bible that translates
it like that other than the NWT.
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
This does not say "Holy Spirit or Ghost" but the "Spirit of God". All spiritual beings have a spirit or power they can use to accomplish their will. God's is the only one ever to have the title "Holy" associated with it.
Here is more:
Genesis 1:2 (New International Version, ©2011)
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (New American Standard Bible)
2The earth was [a](A)formless and void, and (B)darkness was over the surface of the deep, and (C)the Spirit of God (D)was [b]moving over the surface of the waters
Genesis 1:2 (The Message)
1-2 First this: God created the Heavens and Earth—all you see, all you don't see. Earth was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. God's Spirit brooded like a bird above the watery abyss.
Genesis 1:2 (Amplified Bible)
2 The earth was without form and an empty waste, and darkness was upon the face of the very great deep. The Spirit of God was moving (hovering, brooding) over the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (New Living Translation)
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (King James Version)
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (New Century Version)
2 The earth was empty and had no form. Darkness covered the ocean, and God's Spirit was moving over the water.
Genesis 1:2 (American Standard Version)
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (Darby Translation)
2And the earth was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
2And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.
Genesis 1:2 (Today’s New International Version, ©2005)
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
I have more if you need it. So why do you think it's that Holy Spirit seperate being or person of the trinity that was doing this?
And again I've purposely never used the NWT in any of my post here. All Bibles have the truth of God's word in them but one just has to overlook and be aware of the changes such as the removal of Jehovah or YHWH in them.
27 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Lol, i liked this one,
Genesis 1:2 (New Living Translation)
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
This does not say "Holy Spirit or Ghost" but the "Spirit of God". All spiritual beings have a spirit or power they can use to accomplish their will. God's is the only one ev nk it's that Holy Spirit seperate being or person of the trinity that was doing this?
Genesis 1:2 (The Message)
1-2 First this: God created the Heavens and Earth—all you see, all you don't see. Earth
was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. God's Spirit
brooded like a bird above the watery abyss.
🙂
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI did too. Kind of like the dove when Jesus was baptised. Cool huh?
Lol, i liked this one,
Genesis 1:2 (The Message)
1-2 First this: God created the Heavens and Earth—all you see, all you don't see. Earth
was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. [b]God's Spirit
brooded like a bird above the watery abyss.
🙂[/b]
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75Okay, I should not have to do this because if you read the Holy Bible
And how was this Holy Spirit despenced to these people when it helped them? Did a spirit being show up either in flesh as Jesus and other angels have done in the past and identify itself as the Holy Spirit? Or did it at least show up in some fuzzy or ghostly form that these followers could at least see a little and talk too? In fact has anyone ever seen ...[text shortened]... h common sence which I know you have and tell me what the scriptures really say or not say here.
you would know what happened and how the Holy Spirit appeared
to all those people. But since you are too lazy to read the Holy Bible,
I will quote part of Acts where it tells about it.
And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like violent, rushing wind, and
it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them
tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other
tongues, as the Spirit gave then utterance. (Acts 2:1-4 NASB)
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindswhat is this soup of nothingness, this bottomless emptiness, this inky blackness of a
Okay, I should not have to do this because if you read the Holy Bible
you would know what happened and how the Holy Spirit appeared
to all those people. But since you are too lazy to read the Holy Bible,
I will quote part of Acts where it tells about it.
And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
And suddenly there c ...[text shortened]... it and began to speak with other
tongues, as the Spirit gave then utterance. (Acts 2:1-4 NASB)
post!
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsLol....Yes your right as I've never read any of the Bible at all ever...Lol.
Okay, I should not have to do this because if you read the Holy Bible
you would know what happened and how the Holy Spirit appeared
to all those people. But since you are too lazy to read the Holy Bible,
I will quote part of Acts where it tells about it.
And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
And suddenly there c ...[text shortened]... it and began to speak with other
tongues, as the Spirit gave then utterance. (Acts 2:1-4 NASB)
So exactly why are you showing me these verses again as it doesn't help your argument at all. It only damages the trinity more.
So I just have to ask anyway, why do you think these tounges of fire were a spirit being as you say the Holy Spirit or Ghost is?
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75I don't have the NWT so I thought you was getting that "God's active force"
Genesis 1:2 (New Living Translation)
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
This does not say "Holy Spirit or Ghost" but the "Spirit of God". All spiritual beings have a spirit or power they can use to accomplish their will. God's is the only one ev ...[text shortened]... verlook and be aware of the changes such as the removal of Jehovah or YHWH in them.
from there. When I studied with the JW's for a while I saw there NWT and
noticed how many things were changed to fit their theology in it. So you
must of got it from one of ther pamphlets then, right? Why not accept what
the holy Bible says then? As was pointed out before the Holy Spirit has all
the characteristics of a person and you can lie to a person but not to a force.
Who ever heard of someone lying to the force of gravity, for example?
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75The Holy Bible says it was the Holy Spirit right there in verse 4 and later in Acts.
Lol....Yes your right as I've never read any of the Bible at all ever...Lol.
So exactly why are you showing me these verses again as it doesn't help your argument at all. It only damages the trinity more.
So I just have to ask anyway, why do you think these tounges of fire were a spirit being as you say the Holy Spirit or Ghost is?
27 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsWell if you did study with the Witnesses and they couldn't help you see the origin of the trinity from pagan nations that were totally condemned by God as I know they would have when you researched that with them, and you couldn't see the dishonor that teaching actually brings to God and his son Jesus, I see no more need in spending more time on this with you.
I don't have the NWT so I thought you was getting that "God's active force"
from there. When I studied with the JW's for a while I saw there NWT and
noticed how many things were changed to fit their theology in it. So you
must of got it from one of ther pamphlets then, right? Why not accept what
the holy Bible says then? As was pointed out before the ...[text shortened]... but not to a force.
Who ever heard of someone lying to the force of gravity, for example?
I've shown you scripture after scriptures that totally shows no such thing exist and have shown you the expressions that you think prove the trinity but don't other then in your mind because that's what you want it to be, I'm done.
I only hope that someday soon something will click for you and you'll see there is no such thing as a triune God in the Bible but there are plenty of them in paganistic false teaching almost from the beginning of mans starting up false religions soon after he left the Garden of Eden.
The truth is real if you want to find it. Take care.......
27 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75I've shown you scripture after scriptures that totally shows that there is one
Well if you did study with the Witnesses and they couldn't help you see the origin of the trinity from pagan nations that were totally condemned by God as I know they would have when you researched that with them, and you couldn't see the dishonor that teaching actually brings to God and his son Jesus, I see no more need in spending more time on this wit ...[text shortened]... he left the Garden of Eden.
The truth is real if you want to find it. Take care.......
God consisting of three persons of which the angel praised with Holy, Holy, Holy.
The Hebrew word translated "God" is in the plural form. God says let Us make
man in Our image is obviously not talking about or to angels for they are not
made in the image of God. The use of the plural in Hebrew along with the
subsequent use of the plural pronouns should at least be a cause for
suspicion that God is more than just one person. You accept that the father
is God and believe His name is Jehovah (YHVH, YHWH, Yahweh, etc). Yet
the Holy Bible does not come right out and say the Fathers name is Jehovah,
does it? Jesus never refers to His Father as Jehovah does He? I believe you
also accept Jesus as God also or at least a god. Jesus is called God in John 1:1,
"Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 (see also 10:21), "our great God and Savior" in
Titus 2:13, and "Lord" in (Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 12:3; Philippians 2:11).
Since the Holy Bible says there in only one true God, is Jesus a true God or a
false God? I don't believe you think Jesus is a false God, so it should be
reasonable to think the Godhead consist of at least two persons. That being
the Father and the Son. But let's not stop there, for the Bible also says one
more person is God, that is the Holy Spirit. (Acts 5:3-4) Besides all three being
called God, they all are seen at times to possess the attributes of diety.
1. Omnipresent - 1 Kings 8:27, Matthew 28:20, Psalm 139:7.
2. Omniscience - Psalm 147:5, John 16:30, 1 Corinthians 2:10
3. Omnipotence - Psalm 135:6, Matthew 28:18, Romans 15:19
4. Holiness - Revelation 15:4, Acts 3:14, Romans 1:4
5. Eternity - Psalm 90:2, Micah 5, John 1:2, Revelation 1:8,17
Each of these three are described as the truth - John 7:28, Revelation 3:7,
1 John 5:6
Each of the three are called Lord - Luke 2:11, Roman 10:12, 2 Cor. 3:17.
There other things in common too like, powerful, everlasting, and almighty.
But I am a little tired of getting all the references, so forgive me for stopping
here. Now after considering all the evidence I listed above take a look at
Matthew 3:16-17and 2 Corinthians 13:14. Now they alone do not prove the
trinity doctrine but they definely support it. I am using the NASB for my
references. So just as you believe the Father's name is Jehovah because you
see some support for it, those of us, who believe in the trinity doctrine, do so
because we see a lot of support for it. So I can't see why you insist it come
right out and say that God is a trinity.
Either you are Robbie mentioned something about the "Alpha and Omega" only referring to the Father. As I was looking up these other reference I came
across the following:
Revelation 1:7-8 says someone is coming in the clouds and every eye will see
Him, even those who pierced Him. This sounds like Jesus to me.
Then continuing in verse 8 it says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega", says the
Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
Now note what He says in Revelation 22:12-13, "Behold, I come quickly.......
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the
end. Then note the response when He says again in verse 20, "Yes, I come
quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Then verse 21 says, The grace of the
Lord Jesus be with us all.
Also note Revelation 2:8, "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life says this:"
This obviously is Jesus speaking and He idenifies Himself as the first and
the last. See also, Isiah 48:12-13.
Remember also that this is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
I hope you appreciate what I have done for you and don't just ignore it.
28 Apr 11
5 edits
Originally posted by galveston75============================================
Do you not have eyes and ears at all? Jesus is Lord exactly as the Bible says. But he is not the LORD.
Do you not have eyes and ears at all? Jesus is Lord exactly as the Bible says. But he is not the LORD.
====================================
That makes no sense.
If you come to my doorstep, I will see if you will willingly join me to kneel and openly confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord.
And if you start to multiply excusses like you are doing here, then I'll know. You are preaching "another Jesus" and are in rebellion to Jehovah.
As for Jesus being Lord but not THE Lord ???
Ephesians 1:2 says "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and THE Lord Jesus Christ"
The very same book says "One Lord, one faith, one baptism; One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (4:5,6)
There is ONE Lord and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. And that Lord is God as a Man.
Revelation 11:14 says "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever."
Jesus Christ being Lord does not make God NOT the Lord. There is ONE Lord and there is "the Lord ... and His Christ".
So the ancient brothers were right to coin some kind of expression to express this - and they arrived at "Trinity" or the Triune God. And they were right and Arius and Charles Russell are wrong. And you and the Watchtower Society are wrong.
This is why you HAVE to deny that the Holy Spirit is God and is a "Person" because you have not received that Holy Spirit. But you can if you repent of your antichrist rebellion.
"Now THE Lord is THE Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17 my emphasis )
Because you deny the Lord Jesus you have not " the Spirit of the Lord." You need the Lord Jesus in His form as the life giving Spirit.
"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
Do you know what life giving Spirit means ? What does it mean to give life ? It means to give a PERSON. It means to give God Himself to you as a divine life to compound with your natural life - to be born again after you have been born.
It is to receive Christ into you as a new divine life.
28 Apr 11
The word "Person" we can only borrow because of the limitation of the human language.
When I write that the Holy Spirit is a Person I with other acknowledge that we can only borrow the word. He is quite an unusual Person and not person in the usual sense.
This "Person" can indwell millions of people at one time. We can only borrow the word Person because of the Wonderfulness of the Triune God and our human language is limited in utterance.