The Holy Spirit

Originally posted by menace71
ok let me make it more personal for you. A criminal breaks into your house and kills your wife. (God forbid) The criminal gets away for a day or so but gets caught. He nows faces the penalty for his crime which is death by some means of execution. This is the law of the said land. You are the only one who can prevent his death yet the law says for the crime the criminal should face execution. What are you going to do?




Manny

🙂


Go Manny!!!

Originally posted by menace71
ok let me make it more personal for you. A criminal breaks into your house and kills your wife. (God forbid) The criminal gets away for a day or so but gets caught. He nows faces the penalty for his crime which is death by some means of execution. This is the law of the said land. You are the only one who can prevent his death yet the law says for the crime the criminal should face execution. What are you going to do?




Manny

The Bible’s Viewpoint
Should Christians Support the Death Penalty?

“IT IS morally and ethically wrong.” “It’s fair and righteous.” These opposing views came from two clergymen, both nominally Christian. They were wrangling over one of today’s burning issues—capital punishment. The newspaper article quoting them noted: “When religious leaders debate the death penalty, both sides cite biblical passages to back their positions.”
Some argue that capital punishment protects the innocent, promotes justice, and deters serious crime. Others insist that it is immoral—a way of responding to violence with more violence and far inferior to the nobler task of rehabilitating criminals, helping them to become useful members of society.
In the political arena in the United States, this debate is especially intense, and religious leaders have not hesitated to get involved. You may wonder, though, ‘Does the Bible have anything to say on the subject of capital punishment?’ In fact, it does.

Bestowing “the Sword” on Human Authorities
Shortly after the Flood of Noah’s day, Jehovah God affirmed the preciousness of human life and then stated: “Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed.” (Genesis 9:6) Of course, this was not an open license for revenge. Rather, it meant that duly constituted human authorities would thenceforth be allowed to execute those who took the lives of others.
In ancient Israel the Law that God transmitted through Moses stipulated the death penalty for certain serious offenses. (Leviticus 18:29) However, the Law also provided for impartial judging, eyewitness testimony, and curbs against corruption. (Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 16:18-20; 19:15) The judges were to be devout men and were held accountable to God himself! (Deuteronomy 1:16, 17; 2 Chronicles 19:6-10) Thus there were safeguards against abuses of the death penalty.
Today no government on this earth truly represents divine justice as ancient Israel did. But governments do in many ways act as God’s ‘ministers,’ or agents, in that they preserve a measure of order and stability and provide needed public services. The apostle Paul reminded Christians to be obedient to these “superior authorities” and then added: “If you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it [the government] bears the sword; for it is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad.”—Romans 13:1-4.
“The sword” Paul mentioned symbolizes the government’s right to punish criminals—even with death. Christians respect that right, but should they seek to have a say in how it is exercised?

“The Sword” Misused
Human governments have certainly wielded “the sword” for the sake of justice many times. But it must be admitted that they have also been guilty of misusing it. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) The government of ancient Rome was guilty of wielding “the sword” of judicial execution against innocent servants of God. John the Baptizer, James, and even Jesus Christ were among its victims.—Matthew 14:8-11; Mark 15:15; Acts 12:1, 2.
In modern times something similar has happened. Innocent servants of Jehovah have been executed in various countries—by firing squad, by guillotine, by hanging, by gas chamber—all of it “legally” carried out by governments trying to suppress Christianity. All powers that abuse their authority will render an account to God. What terrible bloodguilt they bear!—Revelation 6:9, 10.
True Christians shudder at the thought of bearing bloodguilt before Jehovah God. Thus, while they respect a government’s right to wield “the sword,” they are keenly aware of how it has been misused. It has served as a tool for persecution and has also at times been wielded with prejudicial harshness against some and inappropriate leniency toward others. So how do Christians react to the debate over capital punishment? Do they get involved and push for change?

Christian Neutrality
Unlike those clergymen mentioned at the outset, true Christians try to keep in mind an important principle: Jesus Christ told his followers to be “no part of the world.”—John 15:19; 17:16.
Can a Christian obey that injunction and still join the debate over the death penalty? Evidently not. This is, after all, a social and political issue. In the United States, candidates for political office commonly use their stand on the death penalty—whether for or against—as an important plank in their campaign platform. They debate the subject ardently and use the emotional intensity that this subject usually provokes as a lever to sway voters to their cause.
Perhaps the question for a Christian to ponder is this: Would Jesus have involved himself in the controversy over how this world’s governments wield “the sword”? Remember, when his countrymen tried to get him involved in politics, Jesus “withdrew again into the mountain all alone.” (John 6:15) It seems far more likely, then, that he would have left this matter where God put it—in the hands of the governments.
Likewise today, one would expect Christians to be careful not to jump into arguments on this subject. They would recognize the right of governments to do as they wish. But as Christian ministers who are no part of the world, they would neither avow support for capital punishment nor promote its abolition.
Rather, they keep in mind the words of Ecclesiastes 8:4: “The word of the king is the power of control; and who may say to him: ‘What are you doing?’” Yes, the world’s ‘kings,’ or political rulers, have been granted the power to carry out their own will. No Christian has the authority to call them to task. But Jehovah can. And he will. The Bible allows us to look forward to the day when God will bring about final justice for every crime and every abuse of “the sword” in this old world.—Jeremiah 25:31-33; Revelation 19:11-21.

The Bibles viewpoint is my view point. And no need to come back at me and say something as usual like "say it in your own words!!!!!"
I totally agree with this article so take it or leave it.

Originally posted by menace71
Man dare you to think for yourself answer my question at least. I can respect you for a non-violence stance but and I say but it's not your own thoughts. It's what the Watch Tower tells you to believe. You have no thoughts of your own so sad. Oh well choose to be brain washed. I can and do understand the sanctity of life but you would choose to have crim ...[text shortened]... even if just to defend. Also those who play the middle of the road get ran over!!


Manny

Lol...Just like a broken record. Nothing new to add to any spiritual inlightenment as usual. At times in the past you actually posted a great post from time to time but I can see where your heart is clearly now.

Originally posted by galveston75
Lol...Just like a broken record. Nothing new to add to any spiritual inlightenment as usual. At times in the past you actually posted a great post from time to time but I can see where your heart is clearly now.

but he has claimed to be a great light shining in a dark place, chosen by Jehovah himself.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
but he has claimed to be a great light shining in a dark place, chosen by Jehovah himself.

It's sad as the term antichrist is seriously looming around here which we know to mean anything that is against Jesus and the work he commisioned all of his true followers to do until Jesus himself says it is complete. The worldwide teaching work is to help teach and lead ones to God's Kingdom and eventually to everlasting life. When ones here condemn, mock and would even like to see us stop in this work, that is being against Jesus or an antichrist.

Originally posted by galveston75
The Bible’s Viewpoint
Should Christians Support the Death Penalty?

“IT IS morally and ethically wrong.” “It’s fair and righteous.” These opposing views came from two clergymen, both nominally Christian. They were wrangling over one of today’s burning issues—capital punishment. The newspaper article quoting them noted: “Wh ...[text shortened]... e "say it in your own words!!!!!"
I totally agree with this article so take it or leave it.

The newspaper article quoting them noted: “When religious leaders debate the death penalty, both sides cite biblical passages to back their positions.”

This is quite right, the bible is not consistent and biblical passages can be found both supporting and denouncing capital punishment. People do not base their moral views on what the bible says, they cherry-pick and interpret bits from the bible to support their existing views, which are mainly influenced by their personal experiences in the society in which they live.

The Bibles viewpoint is my view point.

And The Bibles viewpoint is also the viewpoint of people with the opposite opinion to yours. It just depends on which passages you choose to quote and how you choose to interpret them.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
[b]The newspaper article quoting them noted: “When religious leaders debate the death penalty, both sides cite biblical passages to back their positions.”

This is quite right, the bible is not consistent and biblical passages can be found both supporting and denouncing capital punishment. People do not base their moral views on what the bible says, th ...[text shortened]... ends on which passages you choose to quote and how you choose to interpret them.

--- Penguin.[/b]

Part 1: Well actually the bible is very consistant but one has to look and understand why there seems to be two different lines of thought on this subject of killing.
From the time of Abraham and the promise God made to him about the messiah coming thru his line of decendants, god had to protect that lineage by all means possible. The world at that times was not living up to God's standards and had infact become repulsive to God because of the pagan beliefs they not only became involved in but even designed themselves. And these nations around them many times tried to destroy God's people in wars. So in order to protect his people and the promise to Abraham God had to battle these other nations and even in fact had to go one the offensive to accomplish his will and to eventually rid the promised land of these nations. Also this was the time period all the Mosaic laws were established to keep his people as clean and pure as possible for his love for them and again because the messiah was to come from them.
And those laws which actually in effect showed how the messiah was needed to be the avenue that God would use to help make salvation available to us all someday. Those laws were perfect but no one before Jesus was able to live perfectly by them.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
but he has claimed to be a great light shining in a dark place, chosen by Jehovah himself.

NO read it again: I said if Jehovah choose for me to be




Manny

Nice mis-quote 🙂

Originally posted by galveston75
It's sad as the term antichrist is seriously looming around here which we know to mean anything that is against Jesus and the work he commisioned all of his true followers to do until Jesus himself says it is complete. The worldwide teaching work is to help teach and lead ones to God's Kingdom and eventually to everlasting life. When ones here condemn, ...[text shortened]... and would even like to see us stop in this work, that is being against Jesus or an antichrist.

If YOU were so serious about spreading Jehovah's word then why do you spend so much time on this site? Anti-Christs now huh? I get frustrated with you guys. Acting like your superior in some way. No one can know or understand the bible or God but through this crazy place in Brooklin NY LOL I honestly believe you guys our sincere in your beliefs but you will not ever differ from what the Watch Tower says. I'm so thankful that your Organization really is not the only way or avenue to God. If anyone differs from you they are labeled Anti-Christ ? Yet the doctrines of the W.T. deny Christ His rightful place.


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
If YOU were so serious about spreading Jehovah's word then why do you spend so much time on this site? Anti-Christs now huh? I get frustrated with you guys. Acting like your superior in some way. No one can know or understand the bible or God but through this crazy place in Brooklin NY LOL I honestly believe you guys our sincere in your beliefs but you beled Anti-Christ ? Yet the doctrines of the W.T. deny Christ His rightful place.


Manny

Well you shouldn't asume anything about me or Robbie as you know nothing about us and what we do on our personal time. But to ease your mind as it seems to be a concern of yours I'm only able to work part time at best because of multiply health problems I have and that also affects my ability to go out in the door to door ministry as well as other things I love to do.
This is very frustrating to post and converse here, but it's one way I can try to share what I've learned with others even though I'm really getting tired of being attacked. So as of now I feel I'm totally waisting my time in the hope of helping someone that is truely looking for what God offers. But maybe some on here is just watching and reading and might see something they like. Who knows.
So I hope that answers your question............And no, I'm the least superior person here. I feel pretty usless at times with my health issues.