10 Sep 10
Deucer, what about the fourth part of Yahweh? Herman, the uncle?
I know he doesn't get a lot of time in the traditional passages being the the drunk of the family, the father and holy spirit tried to keep him out of the spotlight for the family name sake. But I think the drinking problem comes from everyone's inclination to go to the father, he's a bit jealous.
Seriously though, does the name or distinction into other parts really alter the foundations of any branches of this faith? If anything, it seems a minor detail that people get lost in and lose the entire message completely
10 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75From Mark 3
I've asked this question before and I don't remember if you commented on it but according to the bible if one sins against the "holy spirit" there is no forgiveness of sin. But we know there are many scriptures where it speaks of God ( YHWH) and Jesus forgiving sins against them.
Why the differance if they are all the same being?
Jesus and Beelzebub
20Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
22And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub[c]! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."
23So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
30He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."
Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.”
This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. As a result, this particular incidence of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The closest example today would be attributing the miracle of a redeemed person’s changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
10 Sep 10
Originally posted by duecertrinity sminitry, a doctrine borrowed from the ancient Greeks, who got it from the Hindus, who got it from the Babylonians, plueeeeze i prefer my worship clean and uncontaminated!
that's the best you got? seems like I've won yet another debate. be careful Robbie, you'll be a trinitarian before ya know it.😉
10 Sep 10
2 edits
Originally posted by duecerWell your saying here it is against Jesus but then you say it's against the Holy Spirit.
From Mark 3
Jesus and Beelzebub
20Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
22And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub[c] changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
So are you saying if it is against the Holy Spirit it is also against God and Jesus even though the Bible is clear it's only against the Holy Spirit that sins cannot be forgiven? So who again is this against and who is it not against?
Also here where you quoted, Jesus did not say against himself did he? He did say againist the Holy Spirit...right? Is he not saying here that sins against him will be forgiven but not against the Holy Spirit? Right?
10 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75I am sorry you have become confused by so simple an idea
Well your saying here it is against Jesus but then you say it's against the Holy Spirit.
So are you saying if it is against the Holy Spirit it is also against God and Jesus even though the Bible is clear it's only against the Holy Spirit that sins cannot be forgiven? So who again is this against and who is it not against?
Also here where you quoted ...[text shortened]... not saying here that sins against him will be forgiven but not against the Holy Spirit? Right?
10 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston751st: Did you answer that this sin was against Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
It's very clear but I think you just can't answer it. But I'll reword it for you.
1st: Did you answer that this sin was against Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
first: I reject the premise of your question; they are the same so no or would be needed
11 Sep 10
Originally posted by duecerMark 3:20-32 (New International Version)
[b]1st: Did you answer that this sin was against Jesus or the Holy Spirit?
first: I reject the premise of your question; they are the same so no or would be needed[/b]
Jesus and Beelzebub
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub[a]! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."
23 So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. 27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. 28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
30He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."
OK..lets try this again.....Does not verse 28 say that all sins and blasphemes would be forgiven of all men?
Who is this speaking of? Jesus or God or both of them?
Now doesn't verse 29 say that there is an exception of being forgiven and that is a sin against the Holy Spirit?
So trying to put this as simple as I can for you.....One can sin against God and Jesus but not against the Holy Spirit.
So why the differance? If all three are all one and all equal and all knowing, etc, etc, why is there a differance in forgiving sins? If one of the three parts cannot forgive blasphemy but the other two parts do, how on earth do they figure out such things as who gets salvation?
Two says he's saved but one part says no? Do they argue over things such as this?
It's sounds like a three headed creature trying to go seperate ways, two against one.
So if you don't try to give some kind of logical explination for this scripture you brought up, then it would clearly show you have no answer.
If you truley believe this then explain it to me.
11 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75its already been explained, your simply being purposely obtuse
Mark 3:20-32 (New International Version)
Jesus and Beelzebub
20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem sa ...[text shortened]... learly show you have no answer.
If you truley believe this then explain it to me.
11 Sep 10
God can be addressed in many ways. However the ridiculous claim that the JW's have the only true and correct name for God is well to be redundant ridiculous.
"I Am"
"Mighty Counselor"
"Abba"
"King of Kings"
God is to manifold in Glory to be held down my one name anyway.
We can say without a doubt that the JW's do not have the correct pronunciation on the word Jehovah but who cares just don't make statements that JW's are the only ones who use and have God's correct name.
Manny