30 Oct 13
Originally posted by PudgenikSo David repented and his salvation was restored? So he gain salvation and then did lose his salvation, but he got it back when he repented, is that process scriptural? Don't think so.
Free Will is the culprit if you are looking for something to blame.
With David, the answer is easy. He repented.
With Moses, a little more complex. If i recall Moses murdered the man before standing at the mountain of God. Before he received the 10 commandments. (thou shall not kill). I'm certainly not condoning his actions.
With Judas, he did not repent, but hung himself.
31 Oct 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterLOL, people could go around robbing banks repent, robbing banks repent, murdering someone repent, committing adultery repent, stealing cars repent, LOL. But not committing suicide because you won't be able to repent.
So David repented and his salvation was restored? So he gain salvation and then did lose his salvation, but he got it back when he repented, is that process scriptural? Don't think so.
Originally posted by RBHILLAre you in the OSAS camp or laughing at the grace of god because you can create a cartoon scenario? I'm unclear on your position.
LOL, people could go around robbing banks repent, robbing banks repent, murdering someone repent, committing adultery repent, stealing cars repent, LOL. But not committing suicide because you won't be able to repent.
Pudgenic seems to think that David was able to regain his salvation after he murdered and committed adultery (2 heinous sins), but it seems as though you think that repentance is valid for only certain sins (lesser than bank-robbery I presume) and only for a limited number of events.
Which sins and how many repetitions of each before I approach the limit of god's grace? Is there a sliding scale whereby sin x committed y times = z number of repentances? Perhaps you imagine a sort of forgiveness version of differential calculus that god uses to determine if the total area of sin committed is coverable by available mercy and atoning blood?
Edit: sorry, but please!
03 Nov 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou are not able to see the biggest flaw in modern Christianity. It is that in order to fill the churches with 'paying customers' which make the pastors rich they play God...
Those who don't believe in OSAS make me wonder what you do with sins of omission and sins of commission? How about sins you aren't even aware of?
- tell people they are saved, when the truth is that they do not know
- tell people their loved ones are going to heaven [like at funerals] when the truth is that they do not know.
- tell people that their sins are forgiven when the truth is that they do not know
'You' dont have to do anything with sins. You know that you sin, you repent and ask God for forgiveness and thereafter it is in Gods hands.
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03 Nov 13
Originally posted by Rajk999You know Rajk999, your argument is getting so old and weak, it has become an annoyance. You don't even address the question or the comments.
You are not able to see the biggest flaw in modern Christianity. It is that in order to fill the churches with 'paying customers' which make the pastors rich they play God...
- tell people they are saved, when the truth is that they do not know
- tell people their loved ones are going to heaven [like at funerals] when the truth is that they do not know.
- ...[text shortened]... ou know that you sin, you repent and ask God for forgiveness and thereafter it is in Gods hands.
You remind me of the old hellfire and brimstone preacher, cold, angry, and borderline hateful.
You think God is like you, well, I have news for you, he is not.
03 Nov 13
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiterI dont know about any argument, and I did address your question.
You know Rajk999, your argument is getting so old and weak, it has become an annoyance. You don't even address the question or the comments.
You remind me of the old hellfire and brimstone preacher, cold, angry, and borderline hateful.
You think God is like you, well, I have news for you, he is not.
You said Those who don't believe in OSAS make me wonder what you do with sins of omission and sins of commission? How about sins you aren't even aware of?
I replied with 'You' dont have to do anything with sins. You know that you sin, you repent and ask God for forgiveness and thereafter it is in Gods hands.
Seems like an appropriate answer to me. In any case we have two totally different attitudes to the Bible. I search for truth and accept that however distasteful it appears to be. You try to find the easy route [so you think] to eternal life.
eg You say ".. just accept with your mouth and you are saved eternally, you dont have to bother about sins etc as you are already saved and God cannot take that away. "
I say " I accept Christ with my mouth and follow in Christ footsteps with good works and make every effort to resist sin and evil, because I know the Bible says I can lose my eternal life if I fall away into a sinful life."
We are two different people. Call me all the names you like. My hope for you is that read the words of Christ instead of listening to the doctrine of fallible foolish men.
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03 Nov 13
Originally posted by Rajk999I did not call you any names.
I dont know about any argument, and I did address your question.
You said Those who don't believe in OSAS make me wonder what you do with sins of omission and sins of commission? How about sins you aren't even aware of?
I replied with [i]'You' dont have to do anything with sins. You know that you sin, you repent and ask God for forgiveness and t ...[text shortened]... u is that read the words of Christ instead of listening to the doctrine of fallible foolish men.
The difference between us is that I KNOW I am saved, while you are not.
1 John 3:1-3
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
NKJV
Pay particular attention to verse 2...it says we are NOW children of God.
In your world we are his children one day and not the next.
03 Nov 13
Originally posted by Rajk999Your view of God is not driven by what you have found, it is driven by what you have sought. If you seek mercy you will find it, if you serve judgment you will fall under it.
I dont know about any argument, and I did address your question.
You said Those who don't believe in OSAS make me wonder what you do with sins of omission and sins of commission? How about sins you aren't even aware of?
I replied with [i]'You' dont have to do anything with sins. You know that you sin, you repent and ask God for forgiveness and t ...[text shortened]... u is that read the words of Christ instead of listening to the doctrine of fallible foolish men.
"To the merciful god reveals himself merciful" and "mercy triumphs over judgment".
The key difference between the scientific atheist and the Christian seeker, is that the former looks for laws to free them from the mystery of knowledge and the later seeks the mystery that is God in Christ to free himself from the knowledge of the law.
04 Nov 13
2 edits
Originally posted by PudgenikI agree with you, the trouble is there is a mix of people who believe they
To believe in this concept, is ridiculous. It would be like saying, "today" I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. And tomorrow I can do whatever I want, because I am "saved". Doing whatever I want, to commit all manner of sin, but look I am a child of God.
Has know one ever read, where Jesus is talking about those at judgement. You faithful co ...[text shortened]... e, we healed people in your name." Then the Lord said to them, "Away from me, I never knew you".
have a get out of jail free card, because they mouthed the words, "Jesus
save me." They are mixed into the group that have indeed turned their lives
over to Christ, and treat Him as their Lord. Scripture is quite clear on giving
us warnings to not treat the grace of God with contempt where it is abused
so that we can live a life of sin without repenting.
Isaiah 39: 13 Therefore the Lord said, Because this people come near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me was taught by the precept of men,
14 Therefore behold, I will again do a marvelous work in this people, even a marvelous work, and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
In Isaiah God tells us that if the fear of God that was simply taught to us by
man could bring about a result of being as near, if not completely useless,
towards actually having us respect for God as He should be. Those that come
to God and actually have God displaying His majesty and authority in their
lives will not cast away so easily as a precept of man.
This is quite like the difference between Jesus' teaching us and any other
man, Jesus taught us with the authority of God not the wisdom of some
man who may indeed be smart, but is only sharing what he thinks is true,
because of his musing of life and scripture.
Just so everyone knows this is also true within NT scripture, we are warned
over and over by Jesus, Paul, John and so on. Jesus told us about judgment
day those who he never knew who were doing good works, He did not deny
they were doing good works, He denied He knew them, we are warned by
John to not get entangled in sin and over come by it, Paul gives us
warnings over and over too, that we should not be walking in the flesh.
Romans 8: 12 Therefore brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh, to live after the flesh: 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye mortify the deeds of the body by the Spirit, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
It is easy to make the claim you love and serve God, it is quite another to
have God's Spirit leading and guiding you through your life.
Kelly
04 Nov 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterYes I am for OSAS. I would say if you could lose it? Then it would just be one sin. So you have to be on repentance minute by minute, which basically a true saved child of God would do, OSAS.
Are you in the OSAS camp or laughing at the grace of god because you can create a cartoon scenario? I'm unclear on your position.
Pudgenic seems to think that David was able to regain his salvation after he murdered and committed adultery (2 heinous sins), but it seems as though you think that repentance is valid for only certain sins (lesser than ban ...[text shortened]... of sin committed is coverable by available mercy and atoning blood?
Edit: sorry, but please!
04 Nov 13
Originally posted by RBHILLMinute by minute you sin and ask for repentance?
Yes I am for OSAS. I would say if you could lose it? Then it would just be one sin. So you have to be on repentance minute by minute, which basically a true saved child of God would do, OSAS.
And you think God is pleased with that?
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04 Nov 13
Originally posted by RBHILLYou are correct RBHILL, God looks no further than Jesus. Our righteousness and our good works are like filthy rags. God knew we could never be redeemed by our own works nor our own righteousness.
Technically speaking God's not even pleased with our righteousness.
God looks no further than his son Jesus, on whom all our sins were placed.
In Hebrews he even says Jesus paid the price once for all(time),my emphasis, which is what is implied.
We have true freedom to love God and serve him out of a thankful heart, not fear of losing our salvation. That is a terribly sad state to be in.
There are many here who do not understand that in the old testament, when a person with sin brought a sacrifice to the high priest, the high priest examined the sacrifice, to see if it was spotless.
He did not examine the sinner, he examined the sacrifice!
And this was just a shadow of what was to come.
Jesus was our sacrifice! When we are accused by Satan of sin or unworthiness, God examines the sacrifice, Jesus, and he is satisfied.
What many here want to do is examine the sinner constantly, and their eyes are off of Jesus the sacrifice!
They do not see how holy and pure Jesus was. They are obsessed with the sin.
When God says he will never leave us nor forsake us, he meant what he said. They think that preaching God's grace is a license to sin.
This could not be further from the truth! It is freedom FROM sin, not TO sin.
I submit that people who live in constant fear of losing their salvation cannot please God, nor be all that God wanted them to be.