The Myth: Once saved always saved!

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Although it is said that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"..."

"the fear of God": in scriptural context, reverential awe; recognition and acceptance of His absolute authority.

Exactly.

Originally posted by divegeester
OK OK!

You said in your post above:

"I believe in a eternal hell, it would be great if it were not true, but I am
afraid I don't see why it wouldn't be true."

I am trying to contend with you that what you are holding to may not be true, but you seem to be getting defensive about it, or at least unwilling to talk about it.

Listen as I said, I'd prefer Hell isn't eternal, but I don't see it that way.
I'd love it if it were not true, but as great as God's forgiveness is, I believe
His wrath will as nasty as His forgiveness is good.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Listen as I said, I'd prefer Hell isn't eternal, but I don't see it that way.
I'd love it if it were not true, but as great as God's forgiveness is, I believe
His wrath will as nasty as His forgiveness is good.
Kelly

I'm still talking about eternal hell; did you leave "eternal" out by mistake or are you reconsidering your view?

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm still talking about [b]eternal hell; did you leave "eternal" out by mistake or are you reconsidering your view?[/b]

It looks like he used the word 'eternal' to me.

Why can't you see it?

Originally posted by Pudgenik
So what is your bottom line, what are You trying to say?

I've already said it: the terms must be understood as intended in order for the concepts to both make sense and be true.

God isn't looking for people who believe He existsReveal Hidden Content; He is looking for people who are humble enough to make the exchange, i.e., His work for theirs.

Just like at Best Buy on day 31, there is no returning or exchanging on this transaction.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I've already said it: the terms must be understood as intended in order for the concepts to both make sense and be true.

God isn't looking for people who believe He exists[hidden]James 2:19[/hidden]; He is looking for people who are humble enough to make the exchange, i.e., His work for theirs.

Just like at Best Buy on day 31, there is no returning or exchanging on this transaction.

I heard a teacher say recently there is only one way to lose salvation. If the believer, a mature Christian, who has tasted the word of God and has enjoyed his fellowship, walked by the spirit, etc., should willingly repent and renounce his salvation.
That is why the bible says if you deny him, he will deny you.

It sounds practically impossible to me, but I suppose Satan could so deceive some one in sin, that anything can happen. That's why it would be stupid to get saved and sin willingly.
The scenario he used was someone holding a gun to your head and commanding you to renounce Jesus or die.
Someone living in sin, full of fear and doubt, might do such a thing..Just my opinion.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm still talking about [b]eternal hell; did you leave "eternal" out by mistake or are you reconsidering your view?[/b]

I'm saying that if God's grace and mercy are forever, so will His wrath be.
I see no reason to believe it would not be true, just because I want it to be.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm saying that if God's grace and mercy are forever, so will His wrath be.
I see no reason to believe it would not be true, just because I want it to be.
Kelly

Ok I'm not being pedantic here, we should explore this.

Is gods grace and mercy forever? I don't see that in scripture. I see god moving in times and dispensations over the millennia; Ecclesiastes is full of this. Revelation also speaks of the the (office of) the son handing over all things to the father after judgement and reconciliation.

The god I seek has a plan for mankind, he is sovereign and there is only one way, through Christ, that is true. But eternity is about the realisation of that plan, not the perpetuation of the resultant suffering and misery caused by the fall.

I'm afraid I fundamentally disagree with your quite misanthropic point of view on this. The gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple people cannot believe it! it is a gift freely given to those who believe and is non refundable. To those who choose not to believe the alternative cannot be eternal burning in the fires of hell. Is that really the god of john 3.16?

Originally posted by divegeester
Ok I'm not being pedantic here, we should explore this.

Is gods grace and mercy forever? I don't see that in scripture. I see god moving in times and dispensations over the millennia; Ecclesiastes is full of this. Revelation also speaks of the the (office of) the son handing over all things to the father after judgement and reconciliation.

The go ...[text shortened]... alternative cannot be eternal burning in the fires of hell. Is that really the god of john 3.16?

Okay, you don't believe God's grace and mercy is forever, can we than
assume that it will run out and we will than be held accountable for the
sins we were once forgiven for?

We disagree, I guess on God's grace and His judgment. I'm also not overly
concern about who is right, I hope you are about Hell, we disagree about
God's grace is forever. God's will and what He is going to do, is God's will
and what He is going to do, and my desire will not at all change that. So it
does not matter what you or I believe about that will alter what is coming.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay, you don't believe God's grace and mercy is forever, can we than
assume that it will run out and we will than be held accountable for the
sins we were once forgiven for?

We disagree, I guess on God's grace and His judgment. I'm also not overly
concern about who is right, I hope you are about Hell, we disagree about
God's grace is forever. God's ...[text shortened]... that. So it
does not matter what you or I believe about that will alter what is coming.
Kelly

I believe you are a sincere seeker Kelly; I enjoy your posts.

Originally posted by divegeester
I believe you are a sincere seeker Kelly; I enjoy your posts.

Same, thanks!
Kelly

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I did not call you any names.
The difference between us is that I KNOW I am saved, while you are not.
[b]1 John 3:1-3
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been reve ...[text shortened]... it says we are NOW children of God.
In your world we are his children one day and not the next.

We are All children of God. I know you've heard me say it before. Even the "unsaved". So it begs the question, what is the difference? What was the difference between the two sons in the story of the prodigal son?

You, checkbaiter, are the son who was always with the Father, the unsaved are the other son. What did the unsaved son do? Before the Father saw him?

Originally posted by RBHILL
Technically speaking God's not even pleased with our righteousness.

To be honest with you, God's love is so deep. He wants us to dig deeper into love with Him. He doesn't want us to just "make it" to heaven. "Just be saved", should never be enough. Falling deeply in love with Him is what we should seek.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I heard a teacher say recently there is only one way to lose salvation. If the believer, a mature Christian, who has tasted the word of God and has enjoyed his fellowship, walked by the spirit, etc., should willingly repent and renounce his salvation.
That is why the bible says if you deny him, he will deny you.

It sounds practically impossible to me ...[text shortened]... or die.
Someone living in sin, full of fear and doubt, might do such a thing..Just my opinion.

Scripture must be interpreted with certain protocols in place; it isn't enough to simply transliterate every word without careful consideration to the whole.

The passage in Hebrews must be first accurately read before it can be accurately interpreted... and, again, within the framework not only of the passages around it, but within the whole of Scripture, and including other factors.

We are All children of God. I know you've heard me say it before. Even the "unsaved". So it begs the question, what is the difference? What was the difference between the two sons in the story of the prodigal son?

You, checkbaiter, are the son who was always with the Father, the unsaved are the other son. What did the unsaved son do? Before the Father saw him?

The prodigal son in the parable must certainly be the son who partakes of salvation.

1.) The prodigal son is clothed with the best robe, surely indicating justification. His poor and wretched filthy appearance before the father is covered. In salvation Christ covers us before God in Himself as our righteousness. His garments certainly were exchanged for this best robe as a suitable covering.

"But the father said to his slaves, Bring out quickly the best robe and put it on him, ..." (v.22)

Compare [b](Isaiah 64:6) - "For all of us became like him who is unclean, And all our righteousness are like a soiled garment ..."

See also Jer. 23:6; 1 Cor. 1:30; Isa. 61:10; Zech. 3:4.

2.) " ... and put a ring on his hand ..." (v.22)

The ring put on his finger could signify the eternal sealing Spirit. Perhaps it was a gold ring - The Holy Spirit is given to the accepted believer as a seal (Eph. 1:13) Compare Genesis 24:47; 41:43.

3.) The sandals given for his feet - " ... and sandals on his feet"
speak of the power of God's salvation to separate the believers from the dirty earth. Both the ring and the sandals were signs of a free man.

The robe, the ring on his hand, and the sandals for his feet, allowed the poor prodigal to match his rich father and qualified him to enter the father's house and feast with the father.

God's salvation adorns us with Christ and the Holy Spirit that we may enjoy the riches of the house of God.

3.) The fatted calf is especially prepared for him. This means Christ has been prepared to die a redemptive death for him.

"And bring the fattened calf; slaughter it, and let us eat and be merry." (v.23)

"THE fattened calf" strongly implies a particular one especially reserved for the occasion.

This slaughtered calf signifies the rich Christ (Eph. 3:8) . He was killed for the believer's enjoyment. God's salvation has two aspects: the outward, objective aspect (the best robe) to cover before God, and the inward subjective aspect, signified by the fattened calf to be eaten, to be taken in internally.

The best robe enabled the prodigal to meet the father's requirements. and satisfy the father. The fattened calf meet the requirement of the hungry son. It furnished to food to satisfy the son's inward hunger. So then the father and the son could make merry together.

4.) The son is received as one brought back from the dead. All lost sinners are dead in the eyes of God (Eph. 2:1,5) . When the sinner is forgiven, saved, he is made alive (John 5:24-25; Col. 2:13)