The Myth: Once saved always saved!

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Read it.

Who was He speaking to?
When did the conversation take place?
About whom was He speaking?
When is this applicable?

These are just a portion of the questions that must be answered before we can even begin to make sense of any of the Lord Jesus Christ's words. As straightforward and seemingly simple as His words are, they are--- by far--- ...[text shortened]... an't possibly mean what the very straightforward, very specific seem to convey.

What say you?

A few thought run though my mind.

"When is this applicable?" As you know, the scripture tends to fluxuate. Or in the referance to the living word, it has a life of it's own. And this leads into my other thought, Jesus said that it isn't the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law.

So when we look at chopping off a hand, or plucking out an eye. It wasn't ment as actually doing that, rather the concept. After all, scripture also states, that sin comes from the heart.

Originally posted by divegeester
The piece where you deliberately misrepresent is the piece I've quoted.

If what you say is true:
- that you have eternal life NOW and not even God can take away your eternal life
- that your sins dont count and dont matter
then it is not a great leap away from that to say also that there is no need for those like you to repent. What is the point of repenting for something that is of no consequence.

Originally posted by Rajk999
If what you say is true:
- that you have eternal life NOW and not even God can take away your eternal life
- that your sins dont count and dont matter
then it is not a great leap away from that to say also that there is no need for those like you to repent. What is the point of repenting for something that is of no consequence.

Because the bible tells us to repent, it is part of salvation. Repent means to turn around and go the opposite way.
So to repent is to follow the Lord and his direction.
If we continue in sin, we will be enslaved by it, and serve sin rather than the Lord.
It has nothing to do with losing salvation. It has everything to do with being a slave to sin and living a miserable life now. There will be no joy, no anything. It will be worse than an unbeliever because now that person has invited Satan in to destroy them.
Now when I say a person cannot lose salvation, I mean in the spirit. The spirit part is sealed, cannot sin, is always perfect.
Renewing the mind is transferring what we already have in the spirit into the mind and soul. This is what bible study does, praise, obedience does.
It is what intimate fellowship with Jesus does.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Because the bible tells us to repent, it is part of salvation. Repent means to turn around and go the opposite way.
So to repent is to follow the Lord and his direction.
If we continue in sin, we will be enslaved by it, and serve sin rather than the Lord.
It has nothing to do with losing salvation. It has everything to do with being a slave to sin a ...[text shortened]... what bible study does, praise, obedience does.
It is what intimate fellowship with Jesus does.

Very little of that makes sense to me. In any case I think you already provided references in support of this doctrine but still the verses did not really fit your conclusions.

Originally posted by Rajk999
If what you say is true:
- that you have eternal life NOW and not even God can take away your eternal life
- that your sins dont count and dont matter
then it is not a great leap away from that to say also that there is no need for those like you to repent. What is the point of repenting for something that is of no consequence.

There you go again, quoting what someone hasn't said as though they had. These are your words not mine. Thank you for proving my point.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Because the bible tells us to repent, it is part of salvation. Repent means to turn around and go the opposite way.
So to repent is to follow the Lord and his direction.
If we continue in sin, we will be enslaved by it, and serve sin rather than the Lord.
It has nothing to do with losing salvation. It has everything to do with being a slave to sin a ...[text shortened]... what bible study does, praise, obedience does.
It is what intimate fellowship with Jesus does.

"Repent means to turn around and go the opposite way."

Exactly: "Metanoia" in the New Testament Koine Greek is defined as 'changing your mind regarding a previous decision'.

Originally posted by divegeester
There you go again, quoting what someone hasn't said as though they had. These are your words not mine. Thank you for proving my point.

Apparently Checkbaiter thinks its a fair representation of the doctrine of the OSAS camp, hence his response.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Because the bible tells us to repent, it is part of salvation. Repent means to turn around and go the opposite way.
So to repent is to follow the Lord and his direction.
If we continue in sin, we will be enslaved by it, and serve sin rather than the Lord.
It has nothing to do with losing salvation. It has everything to do with being a slave to sin a ...[text shortened]... what bible study does, praise, obedience does.
It is what intimate fellowship with Jesus does.

You are partly right, The bible does tell us to repent. And if we continue to sin, it will be sin that we become. To serve sin rather than the Lord.

Remember, Satan fell from heaven, via sinning. He has all eternity to think about it.

And the bible story of a greedy man, versus his servant. "Just dip your finger in some water.".

It is written, God detests sin. Sin cannot be in the presence of God. So if you become sin, if your heart is filled with sin, God WILL reject you.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
So if you become sin, if your heart is filled with sin, God WILL reject you.

And this is clearly stated in the Bible.

Originally posted by Rajk999
And this is clearly stated in the Bible.

Is that a question, or statement. Yes, a number of times. Both old and new testiments

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Is that a question, or statement. Yes, a number of times. Both old and new testiments

A statement. I have quoted to these OSAS people the verses several times but they insist that these verses have to be specially interpreted or that it does not apply to them. eg

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)


They say they have eternal life already and God himself cannot revoke it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
A statement. I have quoted to these OSAS people the verses several times but they insist that these verses have to be specially interpreted or that it does not apply to them. eg

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God ...[text shortened]... ws 6:4-6 KJV)


They say they have eternal life already and God himself cannot revoke it.

Would it suprize you then, that in the near future. After the Great Day of the Lord has passed, and the anti-christ claims his victory, that many of the OSAS people will join the One World Chuch?

Many who are part of this OSAS also believe they will escape via the rapture. They will not, and there will be a great rebellion amoung the Christains. They will be caught in their delusion, and rebel against God.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Would it suprize you then, that in the near future. After the Great Day of the Lord has passed, and the anti-christ claims his victory, that many of the OSAS people will join the One World Chuch?

Many who are part of this OSAS also believe they will escape via the rapture. They will not, and there will be a great rebellion amoung the Christains. They will be caught in their delusion, and rebel against God.

Interesting. I guess they wont recognize that they are in fact rebelling against God. Why do you think that would happen?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Interesting. I guess they wont recognize that they are in fact rebelling against God. Why do you think that would happen?

The promise of the rapture will be shown as a falsehood, and the promise of the one world church. The power it will have with it's master at the helm, will seduce them.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
You are partly right, The bible does tell us to repent. And if we continue to sin, it will be sin that we become. To serve sin rather than the Lord.

Remember, Satan fell from heaven, via sinning. He has all eternity to think about it.

And the bible story of a greedy man, versus his servant. "Just dip your finger in some water.".

It is written, God ...[text shortened]... he presence of God. So if you become sin, if your heart is filled with sin, God WILL reject you.

It is written, God detests sin. Sin cannot be in the presence of God. So if you become sin, if your heart is filled with sin, God WILL reject you.

This is where you and Raj are mistaken and continue to err.
Sin has been dealt with in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Sin is no longer an issue. The veil of the temple was rent in two, symbolically representing that we can now enter the holy of holys.
You think that the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ was not enough, that we must continue daily putting our sins "under the blood".

You do not embrace the Grace of God. He knew we could not live perfectly. Do you pray continually?
Do you praise God continually?
Do you love God with all your heart continually?
Do you love your wife as yourself continually?
Do you meditate on God's word continually?
Are you ever depressed, jealous, angry, envy?
Do you love God back perfectly like Jesus did?
Are all your motives pure all the time?
Do you have sin you are unaware of?
If you answer incorrectly to any of these, then you also are lost and have no remedy, unless you plan to crucify Jesus daily.
That is not happening. He paid for the sins of the whole world, once and forever.
The reason I confess sins I am aware of is simply to clear my own conscience, so that I can have confidence when I approach God.
Also, again, to be able to rebuke Satan and not give him a foothold in my life.
God has not changed his stance toward me when I sin. He is satisfied with the atonement made by his son. He is faithful, and has promised that nothing can separate his love from his children, not even sin, because it is already paid for.
I am not going to explain again why it is not a license to sin, people like that, do pretty well without a license.
You two continue to argue a moot point.
Let me add that people like you probably believe God is judging America because of sin. If he did, then he would have to apologize to Jesus Christ.
America is destroying itself by sin.