The Myth: Once saved always saved!

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Why doesn't it make sense?

The OP was OSAS, what does this parable have to do with it?

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Correct. Read Matthew, 25:31-46

Read it.

Who was He speaking to?
When did the conversation take place?
About whom was He speaking?
When is this applicable?

These are just a portion of the questions that must be answered before we can even begin to make sense of any of the Lord Jesus Christ's words. As straightforward and seemingly simple as His words are, they are--- by far--- the most difficult passages of Scripture for anyone to understand.

As important as that thought is, set it aside for the time being. The theological corner you've painted yourself in is delusion at best, self-righteousness leading to insanity at worst. I will explain.

Consider Matthew 18:8, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ implores folks to enter heaven at all costs, to the point of cutting off their hands and/or feet, as well as gouging out their eyes, should any member of their body lead them to sin. I bet you can see where this is going. You aren't typing on your keyboard with only one hand, amirite?

How many people are walking (or, for those poor slobs whose feet caused them to stumble: pegging) around with eye patches, a set of van Gogh ears, sans hands all as a result of their dedication for getting into heaven? Not many. Or, perhaps no one sins anymore. That's really your alternative for a body intact, which is the overwhelming majority of the audience at any given church: no one is sinning.

Or perhaps the audience are just fooling themselves and aren't truly saved.

Or.
Or maybe--- just maybe--- despite not really understanding what is being said in the passage, people intuitively understand it can't possibly mean what the very straightforward, very specific seem to convey.

What say you?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Read it.

Who was He speaking to?
When did the conversation take place?
About whom was He speaking?
When is this applicable?

These are just a portion of the questions that must be answered before we can even begin to make sense of any of the Lord Jesus Christ's words. As straightforward and seemingly simple as His words are, they are--- by far--- ...[text shortened]... an't possibly mean what the very straightforward, very specific seem to convey.

What say you?

This is solid. And convincing.

Although the 'holier than thou' crowd might not like it. Or, as usual, they'll take this as agreement to their ideology, missing the point entirely.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Read it.

Who was He speaking to?
When did the conversation take place?
About whom was He speaking?
When is this applicable?

These are just a portion of the questions that must be answered before we can even begin to make sense of any of the Lord Jesus Christ's words. As straightforward and seemingly simple as His words are, they are--- by far--- ...[text shortened]... an't possibly mean what the very straightforward, very specific seem to convey.

What say you?

Exactly! If our sins are not paid for, past, present and future, then we are all going to hell, or at least, what ever body parts are left..

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Read it.

Who was He speaking to?
When did the conversation take place?
About whom was He speaking?
When is this applicable?

These are just a portion of the questions that must be answered before we can even begin to make sense of any of the Lord Jesus Christ's words. As straightforward and seemingly simple as His words are, they are--- by far--- ...[text shortened]... an't possibly mean what the very straightforward, very specific seem to convey.

What say you?

You are a gifted deceiver and talker .. talk without substance. What you just did is obvious deflection. Or maybe its not so obvious as your supporters did not notice.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are a gifted deceiver and talker .. talk without substance. What you just did is obvious deflection. Or maybe its not so obvious as your supporters did not notice.

Listen: I really have no gain in deceiving you, and the chances that I sway you from the path you've opted are on the low side of zero.

Not saying I have all the answers or even the definitive on this topic. I can only tell you my experience and perspective. I was there, dude, totally there. Nearly complete lack of flexibility, self-righteous, smoldering mad all the time. Not living life as intended.

Think about this, since you tuned everything else out: God allows sin in His universe.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Listen: I really have no gain in deceiving you, and the chances that I sway you from the path you've opted are on the low side of zero.

Not saying I have all the answers or even the definitive on this topic. I can only tell you my experience and perspective. I was there, dude, totally there. Nearly complete lack of flexibility, self-righteous, smolde ...[text shortened]... nded.

Think about this, since you tuned everything else out: God allows sin in His universe.

More deflection. Now you want to get palsie and talk about our personal lives .. not interested. You cannot even stay on topic.

Anyway God tolerates sin, but only for a time. The entire Bible is about Gods displeasure with sin. From the first sin God was very displeased and in the end the last words are :

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:12-15 KJV)

Sinners will be kicked out .. but you interpret as you see fit.

Originally posted by Rajk999
More deflection. Now you want to get palsie and talk about our personal lives .. not interested. You cannot even stay on topic.

Anyway God [b]tolerates sin, but only for a time. The entire Bible is about Gods displeasure with sin. From the first sin God was very displeased and in the end the last words are :

And, behold, I come quickly; and my r ...[text shortened]... evelation 22:12-15 KJV)

Sinners will be kicked out .. but you interpret as you see fit.[/b]

You will be kicked out as well, since you are not without sin.

1 John 1:8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You will be kicked out as well, since you are not without sin.

[b]1 John 1:8-10

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV
[/b]

Now we getting somewhere. So we have two types ..

The OSAS, 'Dont Have to Account for Sin' crowd believes that they are saved eternally and their sin does not count. Therefore there is no need for them to repent and ask God for forgiveness. They have eternal life already and have exalted themselves.

Then there are those [like me] that know the importance of good works, following Christ commandments and resisting sinful temptations of the world. Of course those like us sin but the difference is that with a contrite heart we humbly ask for forgiveness and hope that God will not count these sins against us.

Christ said every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

So youall go right ahead and boast that you have eternal life and etc etc..

Originally posted by Rajk999
Now we getting somewhere. So we have two types ..

The OSAS, 'Dont Have to Account for Sin' crowd believes that they are saved eternally and their sin does not count. Therefore there is no need for them to repent and ask God for forgiveness. They have eternal life already and have exalted themselves.

Then there are those [like me] that know the importan ...[text shortened]... be exalted. [/i]

So youall go right ahead and boast that you have eternal life and etc etc..

Here is where you are lost. Yes, we repent and thank God for his forgiveness.
To confess is to say "God you are right and I am wrong."

Not because God will cast me into hell if I don't, Jesus already paid for the sins of all who receive him, but because if I have self condemnation, My faith is shipwrecked and I wont have confidence towards God.

If I don't confess, I will be miserable, my joy is gone, my confidence is gone, I will have trouble trusting God for healing, etc. I confess to clear my conscience and then I can have fellowship with him.
God never moved away, I did. He is always faithful.
2 Tim 2:13
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
NKJV

Now I know you will say I missed the prior verse..
2 Tim 2:12
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
NKJV

But this is talking about, as I said earlier, if a full grown and mature Christian, renounces his salvation, if he says "I no longer want to serve you, I will serve Satan" then I think the Lord will have to comply with our wishes. I am not certain about that either, I am not sure even then we would lose our salvation.
To sum this up, you are accusing us of freely sinning and expecting to be saved, while you sin but have a contrite heart, he "may" forgive you.
This is so twisted. You clearly understand neither the love of God, nor the grace of God. And you certainly do not have a full understanding of the immense price paid on the cross.
So you go ahead and stick with your doctrine, but it is not the words of Christ.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Here is where you are lost. Yes, we repent and thank God for his forgiveness.
To confess is to say "God you are right and I am wrong."

Not because God will cast me into hell if I don't, Jesus already paid for the sins of all who receive him, but because if I have self condemnation, My faith is shipwrecked and I wont have confidence towards God.

If ...[text shortened]... on the cross.
So you go ahead and stick with your doctrine, but it is not the words of Christ.

The only twisted thing is the delusion that Gods love and grace gives you the right to exault yourself.

Originally posted by Rajk999
...The OSAS, 'Dont Have to Account for Sin' crowd believes that they are saved eternally and their sin does not count. Therefore there is no need for them to repent and ask God for forgiveness...

You deliberately misrepresent people here with this statement which is a blatant lie frankly, and because of that my regard of you is reduced.

Originally posted by divegeester
You deliberately misrepresent people here with this statement which is a blatant lie frankly, and because of that my regard of you is reduced.

Well thanks for your comment, First I think you are mistaking me for one of those people who hang around here to gain popularity or feel good about themselves or get 'thumbs up', and similar infantile pleasures. So your 'regard' of me is noted but of no importance.

Next, I would be grateful if you would restate what I said so that it reads correctly. Please ensure that in your correct version all the facts are included : from accepting Christ with your mouth, through sin being of no consequence to eternal life in Gods Kingdom.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well thanks for your comment, First I think you are mistaking me for one of those people who hang around here to gain popularity or feel good about themselves or get 'thumbs up', and similar infantile pleasures. So your 'regard' of me is noted but of no importance.

Next, I would be grateful if you would restate what I said so that it reads correctly. Plea ...[text shortened]... Christ with your mouth, through sin being of no consequence to eternal life in Gods Kingdom.[/i]

The piece where you deliberately misrepresent is the piece I've quoted.

Originally posted by Rajk999
... I think you are mistaking me for one of those people who hang around here to gain popularity or feel good about themselves or get 'thumbs up', and similar infantile pleasures. So your 'regard' of me is noted but of no importance.

No surprises; extremists never care what is though of them, after all it is the mission that is important.