Originally posted by PudgenikExactly. There is a theory around here that Christ was not speaking to the world but only to the Jews in His time. You may remember that Sonship said that even the Beatitudes were spoken only to the disciples. They say that what Paul said applies to the Gentiles. But again Paul denounced sin in all it forms as well. So I dont know what their point is.
"Sin has been dealt with and is no longer an issue". The Holy Spirit, in me, reacted strongly against this statement.
The door that was closed by Adam's sin, thought the sacrifice of Jesus, was reopened.
There is so much emphisis on why we should not sin written in the scripture that it logically makes no sense to the concept of once saved always sav ...[text shortened]... who exacts vengeance will experience the vengeance of the Lord, who keeps strict account of sin.
Originally posted by Rajk999The scriture is alive, and is written as a mulity level text. What i mean is that as a child i think as a child. I read as a child, i argue as a child, i make my decisions as a child. As an teenager i do the same. As a young adult i do the same. And as a mature adult i do the same. The scriture is written for all ages. It is also more than physical, as the scripture has a spiritual demention as well. Infact the scripture is more spiritual than physical.
Exactly. There is a theory around here that Christ was not speaking to the world but only to the Jews in His time. You may remember that Sonship said that even the Beatitudes were spoken only to the disciples. They say that what Paul said applies to the Gentiles. But again Paul denounced sin in all it forms as well. So I dont know what their point is.
The scripture is the Word of God. As God is an eternal being, so to the scripture is a eternal Word.
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The physical nation of Israel still has a very important part to play in God's plan. They have a prominent role in end-time prophecy. However, the physical nation of Israel has been displaced in importance by the spiritual seed of Abraham, that is the church of Jesus Christ.
Christians are the true circumcised people of God. In Romans 2:28-29, Paul reveals that true circumcision is a matter of the heart, not the flesh, and that true Judaism is through new birth, not physical birth.
In Colossians 2:11, Paul says that spiritual circumcision was done by God without the hands of man. This circumcision, that was made without hands, proves that it was not done in the physical. Paul is referring to the spiritual circumcision of the heart. The sins of our heart were cut away and discarded through the sacrifice of Christ in a similar way that the foreskin is removed from a male. The physical act of circumcision is a picture of the spiritual circumcision that is now a reality in every born-again believer.
The condition of a person's flesh is not the important thing. It doesn't matter if the flesh is circumcised or holy. It is the condition of the spirit that matters with God. Those who put faith in their circumcision to save them are putting confidence in the flesh and not in God. Today, the act of circumcision is not the issue, but acts of holiness are still deemed by many as essential for receiving salvation. That is just as wrong as those in Paul's day who believed that being circumcised granted them salvation.
AWM.org
Originally posted by checkbaiterIs there some part of the Bible that says people believed that circumcision granted them salvation? I know that the Jews in the time of Paul were still following the Law of Moses and circumcision was a requirement of that law. That does not mean they thought that circumcision grants them salvation. Thats two different things.
The physical nation of Israel still has a very important part to play in God's plan. They have a prominent role in end-time prophecy. However, the physical nation of Israel has been displaced in importance by the spiritual seed of Abraham, that is the church of Jesus Christ.
Christians are the true circumcised people of God. In Romans 2:28-29, Paul re ...[text shortened]... rong as those in Paul's day who believed that being circumcised granted them salvation.
AWM.org
Anyway that AWM.org document is so full of holes I dont know where to start or care to start criticizing it. So I will just leave it be.
You personally might be in good stead when you have to give account .. when and where and how is not known to me but we will all stand before the judge. So while you will be fine because you might be in fact living the life Christ wants you to live, there are many that can be derailed by your notion that holiness is not important. So your words [by AVM] if they are not correct might come back to haunt you.
Originally posted by checkbaiterCheckbaiter, i know your intention is sound on this, what you have posted here. But i should have added to my last text, and hopefully you will understand the importance of this part, that although the scripture is more spiritual than physical, the two walk hand in hand. Complimenting eachother, for both are important. The spiritual scripture and the physical scripture could be said to represent the relationship between God and man. God made man because He loved us. We have always been in His heart for eons.
The physical nation of Israel still has a very important part to play in God's plan. They have a prominent role in end-time prophecy. However, the physical nation of Israel has been displaced in importance by the spiritual seed of Abraham, that is the church of Jesus Christ.
Christians are the true circumcised people of God. In Romans 2:28-29, Paul re ...[text shortened]... rong as those in Paul's day who believed that being circumcised granted them salvation.
AWM.org
The concept you are making, that the condition of a person's flesh is not important, would be like telling God that His creation is ilrelivant.
Jesus stated, 'love God with all your heart, love God with all your mind, love God with all your spirit and love God with all your strength.'. You see Jesus makes it clear that our spiritual self and physical self needs to love God as one.
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The problem I have with the two of you, is the god you worship.
1. His love is conditional.
2. He judges you on your performance.
So in essence your lives must be like a yoyo, up and down. One day he loves me next day he doesn't.
One day I'm saved, next day I'm not.
My earthly father did a better job than that. And he was not God!
I think God can and does do a much better job than my earthly father.
He loved me and I was his son, no matter what.
Your god is fickle and not real. He is a product of your own imagination.
Originally posted by checkbaiterGods rewards are conditional as only some will receive rewards and the rest will receive eternal death. So obviously He judges on performance. Christ said the evil people will be destroyed and the righteous will be in Gods Kingdom.
The problem I have with the two of you, is the god you worship.
1. His love is conditional.
2. He judges you on your performance.
So in essence your lives must be like a yoyo, up and down. One day he loves me next day he doesn't.
One day I'm saved, next day I'm not.
My earthly father did a better job than that. And he was not God!
I think God can ...[text shortened]... son, no matter what.
Your god is fickle and not real. He is a product of your own imagination.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 13:41-43 KJV)
The rest of your post sounds like gibberish. I dont know how and why people need to talk about saved today and not saved tomorrow.
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Originally posted by Rajk999So, your earthly father loves you more than God? Is that the "gibberish" you refer to? Or is it something you can't deal with?
Gods rewards are conditional as only some will receive rewards and the rest will receive eternal death. So obviously He judges on performance. Christ said the evil people will be destroyed and the righteous will be in Gods Kingdom.
[i]The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them whic ...[text shortened]... gibberish. I dont know how and why people need to talk about saved today and not saved tomorrow.
Originally posted by checkbaiterI always give a reference from the Bible [like what I quoted from Christ], to support what I say. Can you do that? If so please provide a reference.
So, your earthly father loves you more than God? Is that the "gibberish" you refer to? Or is it something you can't deal with?
For instance, are there passages in the Bible which support that you are saved today and not saved tomorrow, or that God does not love you more than your earthly father? I dont understand those kinds of statements as they cannot be supported Biblically.
I know that people often misinterpret this thing called 'Gods love'. Here is a passage hopefully that can sort that out:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. (Romans 11:21-22 KJV)
Note - God is severe on those who fall, good toward those who continue in his goodness ie continue along the right path. You are confusing two kinds of 'love'. Gods love and human love are different. You might want to do a study of the different meanings of 'love' as used in the Bible.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I think you are simply avoiding the obvious. Of course God loves you more than your earthly father and would not throw one of his children in hell simply for a sin that has already been paid for.
I always give a reference from the Bible [like what I quoted from Christ], to support what I say. Can you do that? If so please provide a reference.
For instance, are there passages in the Bible which support that you are saved today and not saved tomorrow, or that God does not love you more than your earthly father? I dont understand those kinds of stat ...[text shortened]... ifferent. You might want to do a study of the different meanings of 'love' as used in the Bible.
I think this argument can never resolved here but Jesus says that none could snatch his own out of his hand ......This however does not absolve the Christian of his responsibility to do what is right and pleasing in God's eyes and to obey God in these things ......otherwise we have a cheap salvation in which a man can say I believe in Jesus and the very next day live like all Hell .....Jesus paid it all and all to Him I owe ....Sin has left a crimson stain He washed it white as snow 🙂
Manny
Is God forgiving yes ......LOOK at the prodigal son story and many like this in the bible......but a key ingredient is when God says change be moved and Repent of our sins that means to obey and do what God says and stop sinning willfully ......... Isiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
19 “If you consent and obey,
You will eat the best of the land;
20 “But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured by the sword.”
Truly, the mouth of the Lord has spoken.
Manny
PS Verse 19 is the kicker
Originally posted by menace71"His own" ? Do you claim to know who is included in 'his own'?
I think this argument can never resolved here but Jesus says that none could snatch his own out of his hand ......This however does not absolve the Christian of his responsibility to do what is right and pleasing in God's eyes and to obey God in these things ......otherwise we have a cheap salvation in which a man can say I believe in Jesus and the very nex ...[text shortened]... and all to Him I owe ....Sin has left a crimson stain He washed it white as snow 🙂
Manny
Originally posted by checkbaiterGods love has always been conditional, flip sake he punished the ancient Hebrews severely for their iniquity time and again and the idea that God somehow negates his own standards for sentimentality is also erroneous.
The problem I have with the two of you, is the god you worship.
1. His love is conditional.
2. He judges you on your performance.
So in essence your lives must be like a yoyo, up and down. One day he loves me next day he doesn't.
One day I'm saved, next day I'm not.
My earthly father did a better job than that. And he was not God!
I think God can ...[text shortened]... son, no matter what.
Your god is fickle and not real. He is a product of your own imagination.
The problem is that Christendom has watered these standards down, instead of God being love, so called Love is their God and they are prepared to tolerate all kinds in iniquity under its guise. God has standards and he expects his worshippers to abide by those standards.