The Myth: Once saved always saved!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are correct RBHILL, God looks no further than Jesus. Our righteousness and our good works are like filthy rags. God knew we could never be redeemed by our own works nor our own righteousness.
God looks no further than his son Jesus, on whom all our sins were placed.

In Hebrews he even says Jesus paid the price once for all(time),my emphasis, whic ...[text shortened]... onstant fear of losing their salvation cannot please God, nor be all that God wanted them to be.

To your 3rd paragraph; I would say God looks at the sacrifice of Jesus over us to save us. Not on our sins or good deeds.

Good deeds would be under opinion of what you would think a good deed is. Example is walking a old person across the street, that is an opinion.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are correct RBHILL, God looks no further than Jesus. Our righteousness and our good works are like filthy rags. God knew we could never be redeemed by our own works nor our own righteousness.
God looks no further than his son Jesus, on whom all our sins were placed.

In Hebrews he even says Jesus paid the price once for all(time),my emphasis, whic ...[text shortened]... onstant fear of losing their salvation cannot please God, nor be all that God wanted them to be.

Paragraph 4

I know stupid to say come to Jesus and sin all you want. that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard no one ever preaches that. And no one ever comes to Jesus just to keep on sinning, you come to Jesus to escape Hell and God's judgment.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Paragraph 4

I know stupid to say come to Jesus and sin all you want. that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard no one ever preaches that. And no one ever comes to Jesus just to keep on sinning, you come to Jesus to escape Hell and God's judgment.

Not sure I agree with this.

I already had a love for God instilled in me at an early age. When it was revealed to me in college that God actually had a plan for me and He gave His only begotten Son as payment for my sin, my motivation for accepting this gift was I loved God already and accepted His gift in appreciation of His kindness and love for me, it wasn't with any thought of escaping Hell or judgement. And go ahead, say "sure Suzi, whatever" if you want, it doesn't matter. He knows my heart. You don't.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not sure I agree with this.

I already had a love for God instilled in me at an early age. When it was revealed to me in college that God actually had a plan for me and He gave His only begotten Son as payment for my sin, my motivation for accepting this gift was I loved God already and accepted His gift in appreciation of His kindness and love for me, i ...[text shortened]... ahead, say "sure Suzi, whatever" if you want, it doesn't matter. He knows my heart. You don't.

????

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not sure I agree with this.

I already had a love for God instilled in me at an early age. When it was revealed to me in college that God actually had a plan for me and He gave His only begotten Son as payment for my sin, my motivation for accepting this gift was I loved God already and accepted His gift in appreciation of His kindness and love for me, i ...[text shortened]... ahead, say "sure Suzi, whatever" if you want, it doesn't matter. He knows my heart. You don't.

I have to agree with you, His love means more to me than avoiding Hell.
Kelly

Originally posted by RBHILL
????

You made a blanket statement: "You come to Jesus to escape Hell and God's judgment."

I'm just saying that's just not true for some of us.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not sure I agree with this.

I already had a love for God instilled in me at an early age. When it was revealed to me in college that God actually had a plan for me and He gave His only begotten Son as payment for my sin, my motivation for accepting this gift was I loved God already and accepted His gift in appreciation of His kindness and love for me, i ...[text shortened]... ahead, say "sure Suzi, whatever" if you want, it doesn't matter. He knows my heart. You don't.

Me neither. My attraction to Jesus was nothing to do with fear of hell, any more than whatever my Christian life is now (such as it is) is anything to do with that. Although it is said that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom", it should be considered in the light of a parental love or more practically, the nature of God as revealed throught scripture I.e a merciful God redeeming a people (family) for himself but who "disciplines those he loves".

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have to agree with you, His love means more to me than avoiding Hell.
Kelly

I'm not sure I even believe in hell, at lest not the way it is had presented over the centuries. I don't accept that the God I know even a little of would put people in an eternal torment just because they refused to accept his gift. I do accept however that to not be in eternity with god is the "second death", but not eternal toture, I just cannot accept that interpretation.

Originally posted by divegeester
Me neither. My attraction to Jesus was nothing to do with fear of hell, any more than whatever my Christian life is now (such as it is) is anything to do with that. Although it is said that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom", it should be considered in the light of a parental love or more practically, the nature of God as revealed throught scri ...[text shortened]... I.e a merciful God redeeming a people (family) for himself but who "disciplines those he loves".

Yes, I think a good example of this is His relationship with His chosen people, the Jews (aka the Hebrews).

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm not sure I even believe in hell, at lest not the way it is had presented over the centuries. I don't accept that the God I know even a little of would put people in an eternal torment just because they refused to accept his gift. I do accept however that to not be in eternity with god is the "second death", but not eternal toture, I just cannot accept that interpretation.

I, too, am moved to believe more in Annihilationism than in any Eternal Torment.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm not sure I even believe in hell, at lest not the way it is had presented over the centuries. I don't accept that the God I know even a little of would put people in an eternal torment just because they refused to accept his gift. I do accept however that to not be in eternity with god is the "second death", but not eternal toture, I just cannot accept that interpretation.

I believe in a eternal hell, it would be great if it were not true, but I am
afraid I don't see why it wouldn't be true. God gives us His grace and
mercy, that has all of our sins forgiven forever this is God showing His
mercy without any guilt mixed into it. The flip side of that is God now
judging someone and they are not going to be getting His grace and mercy.
Why would they except God to mix mercy into His wrath when He does not
mix His wrath into His mercy?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe in a eternal hell, it would be great if it were not true, but I am
afraid I don't see why it wouldn't be true. God gives us His grace and
mercy, that has all of our sins forgiven forever this is God showing His
mercy without any guilt mixed into it. The flip side of that is God now
judging someone and they are not going to be getting His grace ...[text shortened]... ey except God to mix mercy into His wrath when He does not
mix His wrath into His mercy?
Kelly

To be clear then Kelly, you believe that if a person decides they will not believe, cannot believe or has not heard of god's loving mercy and grace, then the loving merciful graceful god will literally burn them in hell for eternity?

Originally posted by divegeester
To be clear then Kelly, you believe that if a person decides they will not believe, cannot believe or has not heard of god's loving mercy and grace, then the loving merciful graceful god will literally burn them in hell for eternity?

To be very clear, talk to God about that!
He is the judge of all mankind not me, but those He condemns for Hell will
be due to sin.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
To be very clear, talk to God about that!
He is the judge of all mankind not me, but those He condemns for Hell will
be due to sin.
Kelly

OK OK!

You said in your post above:

"I believe in a eternal hell, it would be great if it were not true, but I am
afraid I don't see why it wouldn't be true."

I am trying to contend with you that what you are holding to may not be true, but you seem to be getting defensive about it, or at least unwilling to talk about it.

Originally posted by divegeester
Me neither. My attraction to Jesus was nothing to do with fear of hell, any more than whatever my Christian life is now (such as it is) is anything to do with that. Although it is said that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom", it should be considered in the light of a parental love or more practically, the nature of God as revealed throught scri ...[text shortened]... I.e a merciful God redeeming a people (family) for himself but who "disciplines those he loves".

"Although it is said that "the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom"..."

"the fear of God": in scriptural context, reverential awe; recognition and acceptance of His absolute authority.