The thing about LOVE

@kellyjay said
Hardly

You are almost as bad as sonship. Your opening post bears little or no resemblance to what Jesus preached about love. Jesus spoke at length on the subject in Matt 5,6 and 7 in the Sermon on the Mount. He gave examples in the form of the Good Samaritan and the Rich Man and Lazarus. To top it all off in his judgement day scenario He explained in great detail who it is that will enter the Kingdom of God and what it means to show love. Here is it:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick, and ye visited me:
I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)

Your opening post misses the mark by a mile. You can see how far removed your church pastor, and you are from the teachings of Christ. So clearly you are all about mouth worship. As for Jesus expecting perfection, that is a load of churcdh hogwash. You people are going to hell for preaching false doctrines.

@rajk999 said
You are almost as bad as sonship. Your opening post bears little or no resemblance to what Jesus preached about love. Jesus spoke at length on the subject in Matt 5,6 and 7 in the Sermon on the Mount. He gave examples in the form of the Good Samaritan and the Rich Man and Lazarus. To top it all off in his judgement day scenario He explained in great detail who it is that w ...[text shortened]... tion, that is a load of churcdh hogwash. You people are going to hell for preaching false doctrines.

Changing to topic doesn't alter the one point you have avoided.
God will not accept sin into His Kingdom.

I've never denied the righteous will do good works as many times as you accuse me of saying that, you can never show me once saying it. Having good works is a natural outcome when someone interacts with those they love, they take care of their needs.

If I were you I'd stop using the term mouth worship with that mouth of yours. The only one's going to Hell are those that do not have God's grace, and all of those that do will have done the works of God.

@kellyjay said
Changing to topic doesn't alter the one point you have avoided.
God will not accept sin into His Kingdom.

I've never denied the righteous will do good works as many times as you accuse me of saying that, you can never show me once saying it. Having good works is a natural outcome when someone interacts with those they love, they take care of their needs.

If I were you ...[text shortened]... ll are those that do not have God's grace, and all of those that do will have done the works of God.

More church baloney. Nothing from the teachings of Christ.

@rajk999 said
More church baloney. Nothing from the teachings of Christ.

You were given both the words of Christ and other scripture, you choose to ignore them, its on your head!

@kellyjay said
You were given both the words of Christ and other scripture, you choose to ignore them, its on your head!

I gave you some words of Jesus Christ which you choose to ignore so its on your head. Nowhere does the bible say that God wants perfection before someone can enter the Kingdom of God.

@kellyjay said
You were given both the words of Christ and other scripture, you choose to ignore them, its on your head!

There was nothing in your post which rajk999 was replying to which contain any “words of Christ and other scripture”, unless you are saying that your opinion is such?

@kellyjay said
The text from scripture is thoroughly and unequivalently clear God's judgment will be totally just, not amoral, He owns vengeance not us! He promises to repay all evil done. That is strictly God's job to do we are not to repay, instead we are to forgive so we can be forgiven. Those who seek revenge do so with the same warning we were given about the tree of the knowledge of ...[text shortened]... but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I am accepting your interpretation for the basis of this debate so please stop telling me what it is or what the bible says. Ok.

My question to you remains as:
How does lengthy monologue(s) of you asserting and reasserting the message of the bible and the consequences of rejecting a God who “is love”, in any way whatsoever address the incongruent amoral burning in hell depicted there?

The challenge to is that it is amoral to burn people alive forever and you need to justify it by more than simply reasserting what it says, or what you believe it means.

@rajk999 said
I gave you some words of Jesus Christ which you choose to ignore so its on your head. Nowhere does the bible say that God wants perfection before someone can enter the Kingdom of God.

Without the righteousness of God you think anyone is going to enter into God's Kingdom? You think anyone with sin in their lives unforgiven is going to enter into God's Kingdom? The righteous just make it due to the death of the Son of God, and you think anything short of Jesus is going to be enough? What a low bar of righteousness you must have thinking about the blood of Jesus Christ, as well as such high respect for the righteousness of man.

1 Peter 4
For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

@divegeester said
There was nothing in your post which rajk999 was replying to which contain any “words of Christ and other scripture”, unless you are saying that your opinion is such?

Read the whole thread.

@kellyjay said
Without the righteousness of God you think anyone is going to enter into God's Kingdom? You think anyone with sin in their lives unforgiven is going to enter into God's Kingdom? The righteous just make it due to the death of the Son of God, and you think anything short of Jesus is going to be enough? What a low bar of righteousness you must have thinking about the blood of J ...[text shortened]... el of God? And “If the righteous is scarcely saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

What a low bar for doctrinal truth you must have thinking that the pastor is right. Jesus described what the RIGHTEOUS are about in Matt 25. The righteous are the ones who do good works. Did you not read it?

@divegeester said
I am accepting your interpretation for the basis of this debate so please stop telling me what it is or what the bible says. Ok.

My question to you remains as:
How does lengthy monologue(s) of you asserting and reasserting the message of the bible and the consequences of rejecting a God who “is love”, in any way whatsoever address the incongruent amoral burning in he ...[text shortened]... d you need to justify it by more than simply reasserting what it says, or what you believe it means.

It is a just recompense, the eternal God pays in full for the sins of man by taking on the full wrath of God for the sins. One who was sinless and eternal became sin so that God the Father crushed the Son for every sin of man that He took on. Jesus by doing this gives us the right to become children of God.

You have spoken on some of the attributes of God, love being one of them. I assume you believe God is love perfected?
You believe God is just is also one of the attributes of God, I assume you think God is justice perfected?
You believe God is merciful is also one of God's attributes, I assume you think God is mercy perfected?

So God loves man, I believe we agree on that point correct?

How does a just God not condemn all sin without exception? Justice demands sin cannot go unpunished, a Holy Good God in order to be Just, Holy, and Good cannot do anything other than hold all accountable for crimes done.

How does a merciful God remain merciful while maintaining Justice, Holiness, and goodness? If He over looks crimes due to mercy He isn't just!

How can a loving just God be loving and just while letting sinners go unpunished, and not punish those the have done wrong to others?

The cross of Jesus Christ fixes all of these, God put the punishment of all of our crimes against God and man on Jesus Christ so the punishment for all of them is satisfied in Jesus. God's mercy is satisfied by this act of love while we were yet sinners Christ died for us, so everything is dealt with by God for us in Jesus Christ.

Outside of Jesus Christ remains the sins of man not taken care of by Jesus Christ who offered Himself for us. The price of the Eternal Son of God denied will be dealt with by God to the fullest, as all of our sins washed away by Christ was.

This is judgment it is not an act of rehabilitation, rehabilitation takes place in our sanctification with God and the Holy Spirit in this life. It is a just recompense what was offered for the crimes and denied means it all falls back on the sinners, and justice will be done by a Holy God.

@rajk999 said
What a low bar for doctrinal truth you must have thinking that the pastor is right. Jesus described what the RIGHTEOUS are about in Matt 25. The righteous are the ones who do good works. Did you not read it?

What about Matt 25, how do those verses fit in with the rest of scripture as you read them? You think sin is washed away by good works, or is it that the righteous will do good works, and we becomes the righteousness of God by Jesus Christ? Anyone can give water to a thirst man, doing good works is what we are supposed to do, nothing special about that, we would simply be doing what we were supposed to do in the first place, it isn't a job to earn points towards God! If God has not justified you, you are still in your sins.

Luke 17
Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

Romans 8:33
Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

@kellyjay said
What about Matt 25, how do those verses fit in with the rest of scripture as you read them? You think sin is washed away by good works, or is it that the righteous will do good works, and we becomes the righteousness of God by Jesus Christ? Anyone can give water to a thirst man, doing good works is what we are supposed to do, nothing special about that, we would simply be do ...[text shortened]... our duty.’”

Romans 8:33
Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

Jesus disagrees with you. Any man does not give water to a thirsty man

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)

You and your church pastor preaches that there is nothing special about that.
Again like all your doctrine it is contrary to the teachings of Christ.

Jesus says that the those who do good works are righteous
Jesus says those who do not do good works are unrighteous

Doers of good works will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God
Those who do no good works are cast into the lake of fire.

As usual your church preaches nonsensical unbiblical garbage.

@rajk999 said
Jesus disagrees with you. Any man does not give water to a thirsty man

[i]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed ...[text shortened]... rks are cast into the lake of fire.

As usual your church preaches nonsensical unbiblical garbage.

It isn't my words you need to worry about Jesus doesn't disagree with Jesus, and He said when we do good works we are only doing what we are supposed to do. That was a quote from Jesus, so yes, good works will be done by the righteous, but it is God who justifies, those He justifies will do good works.

As you twist the scripture you have man becoming justified by their good works, when scripture is very clear that cannot happen!

Romans 9
Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Galatians 2
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Titus 3
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

John 6
Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

I'm not the one at odds here with Jesus' words, that would be you. The scripture doesn't disagree with itself, and as you twist its meaning you are altering the scripture so that it cannot be in agreement with whole of scripture.

If you accept it all, it is all in agreement, if you pick a pet verse and say this is what it means, than as you apply it to the rest of scripture where you are wrong, the scripture will shows you how and why, because your interpretation doesn't fit all of the rest of scripture.

If you want to earn your salvation by the things you do, then you are not trusting completely in the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

@kellyjay said
It isn't my words you need to worry about Jesus doesn't disagree with Jesus, and He said when we do good works we are only doing what we are supposed to do. That was a quote from Jesus, so yes, good works will be done by the righteous, but it is God who justifies, those He justifies will do good works.

As you twist the scripture you have man becoming justified by their go ...[text shortened]... ings you do, then you are not trusting completely in the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

As usual and according to Dive, you continue to post opinions claiming that Jesus said so.

First we have your opinion on perfection with the claim that Jesus said so, but you cannot deliver the references.

Now we have this one. Quote where Jesus said this : He said when we do good works we are only doing what we are supposed to do.