The version of Jesus where he is a failure

@divegeester said
Does Jesus win a “few” or not KellyJay?

Jesus saves/wins those who turn to Him in righteousness; the numbers are not a scale of victory; at one point in the world, it was destroyed by water, and only eight were saved from that flood. God isn't interested in numbers, and He was about to destroy all of the people of Isreal after they came out of Egypt because they turned to make a golden calf and started calling it a god after seeing all the things that God had done. Moses interceded, or they all would have been destroyed; you are looking at numbers as if they matter; they do not. If it isn't truth, righteousness, or holiness that God gives, it is destruction. God is not a respecter of persons.

You cannot defend your stance outside your imaginary god, your imaginary gospel, your imaginary beliefs on winning and losing. It is all between your ears, a doctrine of devils, keeping people from realizing the danger they are in by ignoring the salvation Jesus has won for us. Because getting right with God due to His goodness, righteousness, holiness, grace, and mercy is far more important than winning numbers of people.

@kellyjay said
Jesus saves/wins those who turn to Him in righteousness; the numbers are not a scale of victory; at one point in the world, it was destroyed by water, and only eight were saved from that flood.

Ok first of all nobody “turns to Jesus is righteousness” that’s just erroneous church-speak. But that’s not the point here.

My point and assertion all through this thread is that numbers ARE a scale of victory, of course they are! The contradictions and moral incoherences riddle your salvation construct.

Edit please read this right through as it has a positive biblical contrast also…

Let’s look at these other biblical principles with my “buts” added for contrast:
- for god so loved the WORLD … but he only saved a “few”
- god is all powerful and all loving … but he only saved a “few”
- the parable of the good shepherd … but he only saved a “few”
- forgive them Father for they know not what they do … but he didn’t forgive them and only saved a “few”
- his mercy endures forever … but he oversees the burning alive of countless billions
- EVERY knee shall bow and acknowledge him … but Jesus will still burn, those billions who do kneel, alive for eternity
- the all powerful god “desires that NONE should perish” … but he still only saved a “few” (so and all powerful god doesn’t get what he wants!)
- those “few” saved are “predestined” for salvation … but the others it seems are not so, and therefore by default are predestined for hell


And so it goes on and on in incomprehensible contradictory principles throughout the Bible.

- BUT… what if Jesus’ victory really was a complete victory, not over suffering in this world, but suffering in the next?
- BUT … what if he actually really has defeated hell and changed the course of eternity?
- BUT what if Jesus has made it possible for a “few” to experience that eternity NOW in this life, the elect.
- BUT what if salvation is about salvation from fear of eternal suffering and those who seek him in this world can know him now?

You see what I believe is not incompatible with the Bible, what if it is a progressive perspective which maintains the integrity of the Bible by revealing a new eternity, a changed vision of eternal doom.

What if there is still a “few” now on Earth, the “bride of Christ”but the billions upon billions are NOW in this changed eternity who WILL “bow the knee” and are going to be the “friends of the bride” who are spoken about in the NT?

Suddenly it makes sense. At least have a think about it.

@divegeester said
Ok first of all nobody “turns to Jesus is righteousness” that’s just erroneous church-speak. But that’s not the point here.

My point and assertion all through this thread is that numbers ARE a scale of victory, of course they are! The contradictions and moral incoherences riddle your salvation construct.

Edit please read this right through as it has a positive bibl ...[text shortened]... e bride” who are spoken about in the NT?

Suddenly it makes sense. At least have a think about it.

If we don't have the righteousness of Jesus Christ, we are on our own; another truth you neglect in your God can only win by numbers doctrine.

@kellyjay said
If we don't have the righteousness of Jesus Christ, we are on our own; another truth you neglect in your God can only win by numbers doctrine.

I’m guessing this is you ignoring my entire post.

@divegeester said
I’m guessing this is you ignoring my entire post.

I am ignoring no, rejecting the premise of yes.

@kellyjay said
I am ignoring no, rejecting the premise of yes.

Took you 2 full days to think of that lame retort.

Just read my post and let’s discuss.
When you fancy it.

@divegeester said
Took you 2 full days to think of that lame retort.

Just read my post and let’s discuss.
When you fancy it.

Discuss, you don't discuss; you spew.
When reasons are given, you cast them all out for some reason without taking anything in the rationale seriously; when scripture is shown to you, the same thing. Nothing about you is solid; it's all make-believe; whatever comes from your 'moral-compass' at the moment is what you say. Nothing but your opinion matters to you, so everything is an opinion, not based on anything you can be held to.

@kellyjay said
Discuss, you don't discuss; you spew.
When reasons are given, you cast them all out for some reason without taking anything in the rationale seriously; when scripture is shown to you, the same thing. Nothing about you is solid; it's all make-believe; whatever comes from your 'moral-compass' at the moment is what you say. Nothing but your opinion matters to you, so everything is an opinion, not based on anything you can be held to.

Your inability to face your own facts with integrity, is indelible watermark of your posting KellyJay.

@divegeester said
Your inability to face your own facts with integrity, is indelible watermark of your posting KellyJay.

I have given you reasons and scriptures; you have given your opinion, which you put above scripture, making your reasoning based upon nothing but your likes and dislikes.

@kellyjay said
I have given you reasons and scriptures; you have given your opinion, which you put above scripture, making your reasoning based upon nothing but your likes and dislikes.

No you haven’t, please stop being dishonest.

What you’ve done is attacked a stawman about my beliefs in a vain attempt to defect from my assertion that your version of Jesus is an utter failure.

It’s YOUR belief which says he only saves a “few”. If he doesn’t save a “few” then please say so as I’m anxious to hear it 🙂

@divegeester said
No you haven’t, please stop being dishonest.

What you’ve done is attacked a stawman about my beliefs in a vain attempt to defect from my assertion that your version of Jesus is an utter failure.

It’s YOUR belief which says he only saves a “few”. If he doesn’t save a “few” then please say so as I’m anxious to hear it 🙂

The scripture below isn't saying only a few will find it but compared to those that don't, yes, a few. It also suggests that not everyone finds it, which is entirely at odds with what you claim. It isn't just this one verse, too; several point this out if you show me a scripture that says God accepts unrepentant sinners! Yes, compared to those lost because they miss Christ that is correct according to scripture, not just my sense of right and wrong.

Matthew 7:14
For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

@kellyjay said
The scripture below isn't saying only a few will find it but compared to those that don't, yes, a few.

So to be clear , is it only a “few” or not?

Edit this is so LOL…

@divegeester said
So to be clear , is it only a “few” or not?

Edit this is so LOL…

Without a doubt not all regardless of how you define few.

@kellyjay said
Without a doubt not all regardless of how you define few.

Does Jesus save only this “few” who find the gate or are there any others from the billions upon billions who don’t find it?

You seem furtive.

@divegeester said
Does Jesus save only this “few” who find the gate or are there any others from the billions upon billions who don’t find it?

You seem furtive.

Give scripture that shows Jesus winning as you claim He does, where everyone is accepted, and there is no Hell! All you do is make claims that go against your personal beliefs; how about something that doesn't simply come from you, something anyone can look at and see right outside of your opinion.

What God did in our salvation wasn't required of God; there was no reason He had to do what He did, we are in rebellion against Him and remain so to this day, and there are those who consider Him, His enemies. Jesus died for us while we were yet sinners, while we could offer Him nothing, while we could not do anything to make ourselves right, and there He saves as many as He calls, and we turn to Him. That is not failing.