There is no knowing Jesus without Paul

@philokalia said
That would not be without consistency and thus can be said to be a rational way to approach the question.

@suzianne said
But it does not naturally follow.

Before Paul received Christ and knew Him he persecuted those who knew Him.
So of course there was knowing Christ without Paul.

Stephen was the first to be martyred for faith in Christ, during and after his life on earth. And Paul was standing by holding the cloaks of those who were stoning Stephen to death. Stephen knew Christ before Paul.

Of course the one hundred and twenty in the upper room knew subjectively the resurrected Christ before Paul was regenerated. So also the three thousand added to the church at Peter's preaching (Acts 2:41) as well as the five thousand added in Acts 4:4.

They knew Jesus while Paul was an unbeliever persecuting the Christians.

I have no doubt that through the centuries people have gotten to know the Lord Jesus perhaps having not much or any familiarity with his thirteen NT epistles. I don't know who would have statistics on that.

I believe through Paul's prayers millions have come to Christ. In that sense God used Paul's mighty petitions and intercessions to accomplish what God wanted to do, have people come to know Christ.

@sonship said
Before Paul received Christ and knew Him he persecuted those who knew Him.

@fmf said
They never met, though.

So, when you boil it down to its deal-breaker essence, the punishment meted out by your God figure ~ according to your beliefs ~ for those [like me] who simply do not believe Acts 9:3–9 [and all that is said to have happened in the wake of the event those verses claim happened] ~ is eternal damnation?

@philokalia said
I would say that it does not necessarily follow.

But yeah, yuo are a Christian.

Feel free to expand the argument and have a back-and-forth on empiricist epistemology versus faith with FMF, if you like.

@philokalia said
There's no knowing Christ without the Bible; there is also no approaching Christ without approaching through the Church, though surely those who are prevented from Church membership are not cut off from Christ. Christ will work with them how He can.

St. Paul's epistles are in the Bible because they are the inspired word of God. St. Paul was chosen by God ...[text shortened]... an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.[/quote]

(1 Tim. 1:12-16)

@suzianne said
And yet you would dismiss me thusly?

No mind; I see you clearly.

@fmf said
There is no knowing Jesus without Paul.
There is no knowing God without Paul.
There is no knowing God without Jesus.

Are all these statements 100% true according to Christians?

@fmf said
This gets an ultra-rare thumb from me.

@divegeester said
Screen grabbed, filed.

@fmf said
You mean, Paul makes claims about himself being chosen by God and about his words being inspired by God - and he makes these claims in his own writing and, regardless of whether this is credible or not, one MUST believe this?

I get that people who buy into these claims rely on their faith to ignore the fact that it is extraordinarily weak evidence, but HAVING to believ ...[text shortened]... his seems like a very mundane, partisan concept and not some supernatural design for the human race.

@divegeester said
None are entirely true in my opinion.

However number three is somewhat scripturally supportable under the New Covenant. I believe that God will speak to whoever he chooses in a way he chooses, but scripture indicates very clearly that God will bring a person to Christ.

@Rajk999

The bible only represents Gods dealings with the Jews.

@sonship said
@Rajk999

The bible only represents Gods dealings with the Jews.

Doesn't the bible represent God dealing with the Gentiles in the house of Cornelius in Acts 10? Then the Apostle Peter with six Jewish disciples witnessed the Holy Spirit being given to the Gentiles. And the Gentiles enter into the church.

How then can you make such a general and reckless statement that " The bible only represents Gods dealings with the Jews"?