18 Mar 21
@philokalia saidThe morally incoherent nonsense of the torture ideology is the inescapable elephant-in-the-room for the dark and depraved heart of mainstream torturer god Christianity.
But look -- we are on the second page of a thread about St. Paul, and you have already begun whining about the doctrine of hell. Do you really think that this has to be thread #2,423 on why you denounce the doctrine of hell?
sonship, for example, has characterized the never-ending vengeful burning of human beings in flames as the "perfect morality" and the "ultimate morality".
If you have an utterly ludicrous situation where leap-of-faith verses like Acts 9:3–9 and Revelation 1:1, in the minds of Christians, might lead to stupendous, demented, non-stop violence being visited upon those who just don't find them (the verses) credible, it's well worth pointing out.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
18 Mar 21
3 edits
The morally incoherent nonsense of the torture ideology is the inescapable elephant-in-the-room for the dark and depraved heart of mainstream torturer god Christianity.
The other possibility is that men do not realize who it was who died upon that cross that sinners be justified.
If He was truly God-man, and I believe He must have been and must be, then as far as it is possible for human beings to understand God went as far as He could in love to justify sinners from His absolute righteous judgment.
The Person most qualified in all history to inform us of the character of God whether evil or not would be Jesus Christ. And He referred to His "Father" as "Righteous Father".
You say God is a depraved monster. One far more qualified than you and had the life to demonstrate it in selfless sacrifice and obedience called Him "Righteous Father".
I am more impressed with Christ's life and evaluation of God than I am with your life and judgment of God.
18 Mar 21
@sonship saidActually, I am simply evaluating your ideology and your moral compass as you present it here. The degree to which you are impressed by my life is a red herring.
I am more impressed with Christ's life and evaluation of God than I am with your life and judgment of God.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
18 Mar 21
1 edit
@FMF
Well Jesus comes and says to see Him is to see the Father.
You may not want to see either Him or His Father.
So you fall for some duping lunacy that He was a insurrectionist executed merely for troubling the Roman empire.
It comes across as desperation to me.
That is a desperation to remove God from your universe.
18 Mar 21
2 edits
@sonship saidIf you're suggesting that the fact Jesus was executed 2,000 years ago ~ according to your ideology ~ justifies him torturing people for eternity for their lack of belief, then I think this is weak - as a moral 'argument', as an attempt at moral persuasion, as a deterrent, and as an inspiration for belief - even IF you do refer to it as "absolute righteous judgment". The fact that your faith fills you with certainty has blinded you to how weak a hand your religion has dealt you when it comes to morality.
The other possibility is that men do not realize who it was who died upon that cross that sinners be justified. If He was truly God-man, and I believe He must have been and must be, then as far as it is possible for human beings to understand God went as far as He could in love to justify sinners from His absolute righteous judgment.
18 Mar 21
@philokalia saidThe point is that although Pauls writings and preaching dominate the bible from the book of Acts onwards, there were hundreds of Apostles sent out to preach to all nations all over the world. Jesus also did far more preaching and teaching that the bible records. The bible only records 3 years of preaching, and Jesus from age 12 to 30 are mot recorded.
If you understood Greek, y ou would understand this passage:
[quote]Here is my simple solution, though you have to know Greek to see it. The Greek for the phrase “which has been proclaimed” is tou kēruchthentos). This is a substantival participle which we could render “the proclaimed one” in English. It is in apposition with “the gospel” (tou euangeliou . . . tou kēruch ...[text shortened]... t Him without ever attending church.
I suppose I will need to see how you develop your argument.
- many people would have heard the gospel from other Apostles or Christ himself
- the gospel was spread by word of mouth and no bible was/is necessary.
- no church [especially the type is corrupt priests] is necessary for baptism.
Where do you get this nonsense ? as if an Orthodox Christain would suggest that the Church was illegitimate before the literal printing of the Bible.
Knowing God, or Christ has nothing to do with the bible or the church. Anyone who lives righteously and keeps the commandments of Christ, know Christ and know God, and God abides with them. You dont need the church or the bible to do that.
18 Mar 21
@fmf said- God sends nobody to hell; the choices people make send themselves to hell.
The morally incoherent nonsense of the torture ideology is the inescapable elephant-in-the-room for the dark and depraved heart of mainstream torturer god Christianity.
sonship, for example, has characterized the never-ending vengeful burning of human beings in flames as the "perfect morality" and the "ultimate morality".
If you have an utterly ludicrous situation where le ...[text shortened]... ing visited upon those who just don't find them (the verses) credible, it's well worth pointing out.
This is a really great thread about it:
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/st-dionysius-and-evil.181203
Would you like me to revive this topic?
18 Mar 21
@rajk999 saidSo Rajk is under the impression that there is some living tradition completely independent of the Bible and Church where preachers are going about, orally introducing people to Christ, and leading people in daily Christian practice...?
The point is that although Pauls writings and preaching dominate the bible from the book of Acts onwards, there were hundreds of Apostles sent out to preach to all nations all over the world. Jesus also did far more preaching and teaching that the bible records. The bible only records 3 years of preaching, and Jesus from age 12 to 30 are mot recorded.
- many people would ...[text shortened]... now Christ and know God, and God abides with them. You dont need the church or the bible to do that.
What a joke of a position.
Where is this happening?
.. And all those other apostles, in other land? They approve of St. Paul's message. The Church fathers featured it prominently in the New Testament.
18 Mar 21
@philokalia saidDon't be such a silly billy.
God sends nobody to hell; the choices people make send themselves to hell.
18 Mar 21
1 edit
@philokalia saidYour church is preaching nonsense as usual. If you want the truth, read the bible:
- God sends nobody to hell; the choices people make send themselves to hell.
Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
God cast people into hell. Come on .. argue with the bible. Lets hear it.
18 Mar 21
@rajk999 saidYou cannot understand this passage because you are not a member of a Church, but are just using your own finite resources. Your interpretation is wrong.
Your church is preaching nonsense as usual. If you want the truth, read the bible:
Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
God cast people into hell. Come on .. argue with the bible. Lets hear it.
Tell me...
Is a man responsible for his own actions?
18 Mar 21
@philokalia said(this is also relevant to FMF)
You cannot understand this passage because you are not a member of a Church, but are just using your own finite resources. Your interpretation is wrong.
Tell me...
Is a man responsible for his own actions?
18 Mar 21
@philokalia saidYes. Of course. And one of those actions is NOT going to be sending myself to be tortured after I die in some kind of mechanism of supernatural vengeance that exists only in the imaginations of those who imagine it.
Is a man responsible for his own actions?