Originally posted by XanthosNZI never said my source wasn't reputable. But, I do know paper doesn't mean anything. I've heard of men without one college degree who are far wiser than you are I. What's paper? I have two pieces of paper myself. Doesn't make me God!
So you choose to ignore why your 'source' isn't reputable? Sourcing your information is perfectly acceptable, telling me to read a website because you can't explain something isn't. Surely you must understand all the science you have to ignore before you start ignoring it.
I actually told you to read thee book "Case for a Creator," because I thought you - like me - look into both sides of an arguement before you side with one of them. I have studied both sides, and I know in my heart God is! I know Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and I have faith that He lives. I have faith that he was risen on the third day, and died on the cross for my sins. It's called Faith! If I could prove God with 100% scientific certainty (instead astronomical probability) where would faith come into it? That would be pretty lame for a God to reward people for believing there are bananas when we eat bananas every day. Now, wouldn't it?
That's like gambling on a football game and already knowing the outcome because you bought out all the players and have them on the bet, too. God doesn't work that way. It's your heart or nothing.
I don't need to read the book, I've heard all the arguments before. For anyone who is wondering here is a quick summary of the arguments presented in the book:
* Jonathan Wells presents a case against Darwinian evolution;
* Stephen C. Meyer discusses the relationship between science and religion, as well as the origin of life, arguing against the likelihood of abiogenesis without the assistance of a creator;
* William Lane Craig discusses the Big Bang and argues for a creator as first cause, invoking the Kalam cosmological argument;
* Robin Collins discusses the anthropic principle and argues that the universe must be designed by a creator;
* Guillermo Gonzalez & Jay Wesley Richards present a case that the Rare Earth hypothesis supports Intelligent Design;
* Michael Behe discusses irreducible complexity in biology as evidence for a creator; and,
* J.P. Moreland examines the supposed existance of consciousness separate from the brain, including near-death experiences, as evidence for a creator.
That sure looks balanced to me. Earlier in this thread I've mentioned William Lane Craig and his Kalam arguments. But what about the rest of the people listed and the arguments they present? Behe seems like an ok guy. Except:
Under oath, Behe admitted that his simulation modelling of evolution with Snoke had in fact shown that complex biochemical systems requiring multiple interacting parts for the system to function and that required multiple, consecutive and unpreserved mutations to be fixed in a population could evolve within 20,000 years even if the parameters of the simulation were rigged to make that outcome as unlikely as possible.
So he himself admits his simulations show that evolution can explain what he claims in the book it can't? So as there can be no evidence proving God exists you admit that it is illogical to assume he does (Refer: Occam's Razor)?
No, God made things appear older than they are after the fall of Man. I gave you the scripture. Good grief! If God can create the universe and everything in it, couldn't he make it also older than it truly is? Have faith! God is!
So I should have faith that God purposefully created an older Earth to mislead and confuse? I should, without evidence, take for granted that God did it even though we can point to natural processes (evolution, radioactivity, geology) that would give the same result? Once again we have a case of you believing that God did it despite the number of assumptions that requires.
I never said my source wasn't reputable. But, I do know paper doesn't mean anything. I've heard of men without one college degree who are far wiser than you are I. What's paper? I have two pieces of paper myself. Doesn't make me God!
You're right you never said your source was bad. I did that. And you pretended that I didn't because I was right and you had no rebuttal. Everytime I bring up something you can't claim away by saying God did it you ignore it whereas I've addressed almost every point you have raised.
Originally posted by powershakerIf you "know it in your heart", perhaps that's all you need.
I actually told you to read thee book "Case for a Creator," because I thought you - like me - look into both sides of an arguement before you side with one of them. I have studied both sides, and I know in my heart God is! I know Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and I have faith that He lives. I have faith that he was risen on the third day, and died o ...[text shortened]... s and have them on the bet, too. God doesn't work that way. It's your heart or nothing.
You don't need to rely on dodgy arguments in tendentious books.
Originally posted by powershakerGod made things appear older than they are? You don't really believe that, do you?
No, God made things appear older than they are after the fall of Man. I gave you the scripture. Good grief! If God can create the universe and everything in it, couldn't he make it also older than it truly is? Have faith! God is!
Originally posted by powershakerAbsolutely wrong! Kent Hovind does not have a single degree from Stanford. Really, there is no excuse for believing such tripe in the information age. Yes, Hovind's doctorate is from an unaccredited diploma mill called Patriot University. In fact, his education department was locating in the basement of some one's house!
Umm, no, Dino has his PhD from Stanford University, I believe. Not Patriot. I think that was another school he went to also. And, you're pretty much mistaken. Dr. Dino has - person to person - debated several top scientists. And, they never win. The reason they never win is that they show they "just do not know" even though our high school textbook ...[text shortened]... me because you have seen me, but blessed is He who believes and has not seen me." 🙂
Dr. Dino looks like a fool when he debates scientists. To entertain the crowd, he relies on his one single advantage: in those debates it takes far less to time to make a false assertion than it takes to correct it. Hovind just lists a myriad falsehoods and distortions, realizing that his opponent has no chance to clear matters up within the allotted rebuttal time.
Hell, even the other wacko cretinists (AIG, ICR, DI) think he's full of BS. You just don't get much closer to a "missing" link than Hovind himself.
Here's a bio, read up so you no longer believe a lie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind
Now for those of you who love watching Hovind make a dupe of himself, check out this
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind-decision.html
Apparently, his understanding of the US tax law is as poor as his understanding of science.
Some highlights . . .
In carrying out those [tax collecting] duties, Officer Powe served a summons directing the debtor to appear before her on February 13, 1996 to produce for examination certain records and to give testimony in order for her to properly compute the debtor's tax liability for the years 1993 and 1994. Rather than appearing and producing any of the records set forth in the summons, the debtor submitted a letter to Revenue Officer Powe claiming that he is "a non resident alien to the federal government," that he cannot confirm nor deny that he received income nor that he was a taxpayer under the IRS Code, and demanding that the IRS provide him with certain items proving that he was required to pay taxes.
In the face of all of the foregoing, the debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God everything he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the United States on the money he receives for doing God's work. While in his correspondence to the IRS he denies being a tax protester., the evidence overwhelmingly establishes otherwise.
Counsel for the debtor argued at the hearing that pleading alternative theories is permitted and sanctioned in our court system. This argument, when made in the context of sworn schedules and statements of affairs in connection with a bankruptcy filing, is patently absurd.
Originally posted by telerionOh Dear. Has he even read the Bible?In the face of all of the foregoing, the debtor apparently maintains that as a minister of God everything he owns belongs to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the United States on the money he receives for doing God's work. While in his correspondence to the IRS he denies being a tax protester., the evidence overwhelmingly establishes otherwise.
Mark 12:17: And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Originally posted by powershakerUmm, no, Dino has his PhD from Stanford University, I believe.
Umm, no, Dino has his PhD from Stanford University, I believe. Not Patriot. I think that was another school he went to also. And, you're pretty much mistaken. Dr. Dino has - person to person - debated several top scientists. And, they never win. The reason they never win is that they show they "just do not know" even though our high school textbook me because you have seen me, but blessed is He who believes and has not seen me." 🙂
Umm, no. I am happy to report that most of us here at Stanford working on our PhDs are considerably less clownish than Dr. Dino. If you ask me, there seems to be a problem with many of your beliefs, this one included.
Originally posted by powershakerBased on your post that I have quoted please provide the proof for the existence of Hell.
I know I could prove that there's a Hell, because I've heard many people have been there and been brought back from the dead. Something that even more verifies my God in whom I have faith.
Bear in mind that you have already admitted that you can not prove the existence of mythical god.
Originally posted by XanthosNZThis is not truly evolution though. Evolution has been found to false. And, the complexities of the universe simply cannot be explained by chance. If you say they can, God help you!
[b]I actually told you to read thee book "Case for a Creator," because I thought you - like me - look into both sides of an arguement before you side with one of them. I have studied both sides, and I know in my heart God is! I know Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and I have faith that He lives. I have faith that he was risen on the third day, and died on ...[text shortened]... t you ignore it whereas I've addressed almost every point you have raised.
Originally posted by LemonJelloA problem in believing in the one true Son of the Living God? Surely you jest! A life without Jesus is no life at all! In the end, everything we do will rot. Our bodies will rot. The material in our universe we transform into grand works of art will rot. And, all we will have left is our souls. A man who dies without the one true Living Son of God is a man who dies not the first death but the second in the Lake of Fire. I may not be able to explain everything and prove God's existence, but I know Jesus lives. I know he rose from the grave in three days. Else why would men not deny Him even when put to the sword? Why are their fewer "REAL" Christians in the world than any other faith? Why in this thread are there very few people standing up for the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ. Why am I a lone human professing faith in the Christ, the Son of the Living God? Why am I alone? Because, narrow is the way that leads to the Kingdom of Heaven and broad is the way that leads unto damnation. I would rather be a freak in this world than a freak in the Kingdom of Heaven. My Lord is with me always even until time and times are done. Even when I sin, He still loves me and chastises me. He is merciful and just, and few today truly have their hearts with Him when contemplating the whole world. There are men who are lukewarm! Behind their closed doors they'll worship the Christ, but in front of men who hold papers with PhD imprinted on them, they'll deny the Son of God before mankind to save face. I profess Him before the World, for I know He will profess me before the Father! And, He and the Father are one, and I have been blessed to be grafted in to the branch of David. Blessed is the name of the Lord Jesus Christ who was sacrificed for the sins of the world. I pray that doubt may also leave your mind and that your hearts may be opened to the knowledge of the coming Son of the Living God and that you may find salvation as I have.
[b]Umm, no, Dino has his PhD from Stanford University, I believe.
Umm, no. I am happy to report that most of us here at Stanford working on our PhDs are considerably less clownish than Dr. Dino. If you ask me, there seems to be a problem with many of your beliefs, this one included.[/b]
Originally posted by powershakerEvolution has not been found to be false. At all.
This is not truly evolution though. Evolution has been found to false. And, the complexities of the universe simply cannot be explained by chance. If you say they can, God help you!
Feel free to post more retarded website links and creationist books attempting to show otherwise.
Originally posted by powershakerwhen i want to hear some street preachers rant i'll (a) find one and (b) probably shoot myself for wanting to hear one....
A problem in believing in the one true Son of the Living God? Surely you jest! A life without Jesus is no life at all! In the end, everything we do will rot. Our bodies will rot. The material in our universe we transform into grand works of art will rot. And, all we will have left is our souls. A man who dies without the one true Living Son of God ...[text shortened]... he knowledge of the coming Son of the Living God and that you may find salvation as I have.
Originally posted by RolfeySo, you probably would have thought the same of Jesus since He didn't congregate with the wealthy and infamous? Don't judge a book by its cover. I've seen men on the street who were once men of fortune and fame. But, you would pass them by like the common beggar? I wish we had more street preachers, but I haven't seen any in Oregon. They're few and far between. What sort of man would devote his life to the Lord and give up all that he owns? There are few that I have noticed. Not many John the Baptists walking around - including myself. There are many who are worse off than I. I find I am rather blessed in many ways. But, the serenity I had lost because of my wayward ways was only bestowed upon me when I truly turned to Jesus and yearned to live the life he wants me to live. You call this failure Rolfey? I call it a saved life. I've lived on both sides of the coin, and know that the way of the Lord Jesus is far better on a person's heart and mind. Even death is not to be feared.
when i want to hear some street preachers rant i'll (a) find one and (b) probably shoot myself for wanting to hear one....
Originally posted by powershakerI never stated it was a failure and I also never stated the state of the street preachers wealth. I was simply comparing your rant to the rant I hear from the demented people on the streets of london with nothing better to do than bother people who just don't want to hear their/your tripe.
So, you probably would have thought the same of Jesus since He didn't congregate with the wealthy and infamous? Don't judge a book by its cover. I've seen men on the street who were once men of fortune and fame. But, you would pass them by like the common beggar? I wish we had more street preachers, but I haven't seen any in Oregon. They're few and ...[text shortened]... e Lord Jesus is far better on a person's heart and mind. Even death is not to be feared.
Just a statement....I was doing fine; no alcohol or drug problems or anything...had a great job and life was great. One day I heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ (he died for me, was buried and rose from the grave) and, for whatever reason, I believed it. Since that day, I've never had any doubt that Jesus is alive. Someday you all will be sorry you didn't listen to powershaker! And that's all I have to say about that!