Trinity problems...

Originally posted by jaywill
Badwater,

There is no use telling me that it was a nice try. It wasn't MY try. It is what the Bible said.

You don't think I can't point to people in the Bible who had a vision of God ??

I already told you what Jacob said in Genesis 48.

Look fellas, my main point is that I find the greatest blessing in trusting that God has spoken to me i 're not so smart and knowledgeable as us."

I like the contradictions in the Bible.

You said "seen God."

I read the Bible, too, and I can prove your wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Nice try.

Originally posted by Badwater
You said "seen God."

I read the Bible, too, and I can prove your wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Nice try.

==============================
You said "seen God."

I read the Bible, too, and I can prove your wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Nice try.
===============================

John 1:18 - "No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

I just said what the Apostle John said. And I believe what he said, as a writer of the Bible, is to be trusted.

The Bible carries more authority for me than your ... "Nice try".

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==============================
You said "seen God."

I read the Bible, too, and I can prove your wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Nice try.
===============================

John 1:18 - "No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

I just said what the Apostle ...[text shortened]... is to be trusted.

The Bible carries more authority for me than your ... "Nice try".[/b]

Any comments on my last post here with the subject of the Holy Spirit and forgiveness?

Originally posted by galveston75
Any comments on my last post here with the subject of the Holy Spirit and forgiveness?

====================================
Any comments on my last post here with the subject of the Holy Spirit and forgiveness?
=======================================

It seems that you are trying hard to see the Holy Spirit as also objective only.

Why does He not have a name?
Why does He not forgive?
Why is He not mentioned in the conversation of the Son and the Father?

The line of all these kinds of questions is a complaint that the Holy Spirit should be only as objective as the Father and the Son.

There are some passages which speak of the Holy Spirit in terms that you want to see. However, the majority of verses are about God reaching man's being finally as the Holy Spirit. So we see "joy in the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 14:17).

While you may complain "Why don't we see the Holy Spirit being joyful if he is a Person??"

We do, we see the people of God having "joy in the Holy Spirit". This means they are reached and blended with the Holy Spirit. They are mingled in their actions with those of the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit is finally God dispensing His life into man that man and God may blend together.

Your reaction may be "I am not satisfied with this. If you say the Holy Spirit is a Person I want to see Him off somewhere BY HIMSELF being joyful."

The actions of the Holy Spirit are now the movements of God wrought into man's living so that God and man may be mingled together.

You don't understand the dispensing of God into His people, not from regeneration to sanctification through transformation, conformation, and glorification.

The only God you understand is the God who is on a high pedestal, outside, above, objective as a High King. That's what you JWs major in - the great Jehovah up there who has a kingdom.

You have been taught nothing about the God who came to indwell His people to be thier life and nature. But you are not alone in this shortage. Many Christians also are with you only knowing an objective King reigning outside of man sending down blessings.

Some of us are trying to encrease the number who understand that the real and ultimate blessing is the Triune God Himself dispensed into man.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
Any comments on my last post here with the subject of the Holy Spirit and forgiveness?
=======================================

It seems that you are trying hard to see the Holy Spirit as also objective only.

Why does He not have a name?
Why does He not forgive?
Why is He not mentioned in the con ...[text shortened]... d that the real and ultimate blessing is the Triune God Himself dispensed into man.[/b]

Not even close to answering this simple question as usual.

Originally posted by galveston75
Not even close to answering this simple question as usual.

its absurd Galvo, how can you teach another a doctrine that you cannot even explain yourself? if you heard this, would you become a Christian if you were otherwise disposed? i would certainly think that christians have not the slightest idea what they are talking about, and really go away wondering what it was all about!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its absurd Galvo, how can you teach another a doctrine that you cannot even explain yourself? if you heard this, would you become a Christian if you were otherwise disposed? i would certainly think that christians have not the slightest idea what they are talking about, and really go away wondering what it was all about!

Your absolutley right Robbie. My deceased 1st wife whos Father was a Baptist preacher for many years was asked by her why he never used God's name, Jehovah, in his sermons. He said he knew that was God's name but never used it because they didn't want to hear it. He said he felt if they did then they would have to confess other wrong teachings such as the trinity and that in turn would make them more obligated to do such things as the teaching work we do worldwide.
He never became a Witness before he died but he said we had the truth but he was not worthy of it because of his years teaching and promoting false teachings like the trinity to his congregation while all along knowing it was wrong.
It seems that some here have the same mindset that if they just just accept some vague and unexplanable doctrine then that somehow excuses them of the respondsibilites that Jesus very plainly tells his followers to do.

Originally posted by galveston75
Your absolutley right Robbie. My deceased 1st wife whos Father was a Baptist preacher for many years was asked by her why he never used God's name, Jehovah, in his sermons. He said he knew that was God's name but never used it because they didn't want to hear it. He said he felt if they did then they would have to confess other wrong teachings such as th ...[text shortened]... mehow excuses them of the respondsibilites that Jesus very plainly tells his followers to do.

I suspect the problem goes deeper that just being tied to trinitarianism (about which—as Christian doctrine—I have nothing to say). As far as I know, there are only two English translations of the Bible that use God’s name: yours (which I do not have) and the Jerusalem Bible (which renders it as “Yahweh” ). The rest use “the LORD”.


Now, when Jews use the substitutes for the name (Adonai, Hashem, and sometimes Havayah), they know that underlying those substitutes is the name YHVH (Hashem literally means “the name”, although it is sort of used as a name). I’m not convinced that most Christians do. And that is just based on my own experience (as a Christian, until I was about 48 or so—and by “my experience”, I mean with other Christians during all those years), and may be a gross and unfair generalization. But, it may also say something about Christian education for “the folks in the pews”.


Again, I am not going to argue with Christians over Christian doctrine—you guys or the Trinitarians. I want to stress that I don’t mean that dismissively in any way: I just have come to realize that it’s not my place. I do enjoy reading (and learning from) the theological debate.

Originally posted by galveston75
Your absolutley right Robbie. My deceased 1st wife whos Father was a Baptist preacher for many years was asked by her why he never used God's name, Jehovah, in his sermons. He said he knew that was God's name but never used it because they didn't want to hear it. He said he felt if they did then they would have to confess other wrong teachings such as th ...[text shortened]... mehow excuses them of the respondsibilites that Jesus very plainly tells his followers to do.

I use vague and hard-to-deine language. But my faith is definately not vague. Its rock solid. The words are just a peripheral expression of an inner experience.

Originally posted by vistesd
I suspect the problem goes deeper that just being tied to trinitarianism (about which—as Christian doctrine—I have nothing to say). As far as I know, there are only two English translations of the Bible that use God’s name: yours (which I do not have) and the Jerusalem Bible (which renders it as “Yahweh” ). The rest use “the LORD”.


Now, when J ...[text shortened]... realize that it’s not my place. I do enjoy reading (and learning from) the theological debate.

Are you a 'recovering Catholic' ?
I just asked because I know a few. They all had trouble deprogramming themselves from stuff that was drummed into them when they were children. (They are middle aged now).
I'm sure there are some very positive guidelines laid out by certain Christian faiths that show people the right way to go in life. But when that doctorine becomes dogma it can cause mental scars that last longer than most would think.

Originally posted by galveston75
Not even close to answering this simple question as usual.

You evade questions plenty.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]==============================
You said "seen God."

I read the Bible, too, and I can prove your wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Nice try.
===============================

John 1:18 - "No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him."

I just said what the Apostle ...[text shortened]... is to be trusted.

The Bible carries more authority for me than your ... "Nice try".[/b]

John would be a poor reader of the Bible then, same as you. You do realize he's not talking literally, right? You do realize his Gospel has a strident agenda from its outset, right?

Originally posted by Badwater
John would be a poor reader of the Bible then, same as you. You do realize he's not talking literally, right? You do realize his Gospel has a strident agenda from its outset, right?

haha, this has got to be good, and what agenda would that be dear badwater?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
haha, this has got to be good, and what agenda would that be dear badwater?

John wants to demonstrate that Jesus is God walking upon earth, a notion that the synoptic gospels do not share or do not share with such fervent zealousy and one that completely contradicts my own Christology.

Originally posted by Badwater
John wants to demonstrate that Jesus is God walking upon earth, a notion that the synoptic gospels do not share or do not share with such fervent zealousy and one that completely contradicts my own Christology.

haha, i knew it was gonna be a cracker! interesting, however i doubt that it shall stand the light of reason!