What did Jesus sacrifice?

@moonbus said
So why didn't God just forgive Adam? After all, he's the one who sinned. Why all the rigmarole with banishment from the Garden and the rest of the human race and a flood and an incarnation and a resurrection?? God could have simply forgiven Adam and let him stay on in paradise. A father doesn't banish his child from the family home just because the child disobey ...[text shortened]... iven "authority to destroy Satan" you say. But who put a snake in the Garden in the first place, eh?

If God had just forgiven Adam and Eve, then Jesus' sacrifice would not have been required.

@chaney3 said
If God had just forgiven Adam and Eve, then Jesus' sacrifice would not have been required.

It isn't as simple as that, that would be justifying evil by ignoring it.

@kellyjay said
It isn't as simple as that, that would be justifying evil by ignoring it.

#1 I don't think Adam and Eve were evil.

#2 Requiring 'payment by death' defeats the idea of forgiveness.

God's unwillingness to forgive Adam and Eve sets up the need for Jesus.

@fmf said
@moonbus raised this issue recently.

If Jesus ~ believed to be a divine being who has always existed and always will exist ~ supposedly went back to being God again after being executed by the Romans ~ and was never not-God during his years of being God incarnate on Earth ~ what exactly did he sacrifice?

It wasn't a sacrifice, it was a demonstration and a gift.

@kellyjay said
It isn't as simple as that, that would be justifying evil by ignoring it.

Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it" and forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. Gosh, you have to engage in all manner of linguistic contortions to crowbar your weird philosophy into the sentences you use to try to explain it.

@fmf said
Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it" and forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. Gosh, you have to engage in all manner of linguistic contortions to crowbar your weird philosophy into the sentences you use to try to explain it.

Says Mister Gabby-Pants.

What does the Light behind the scenes that gives rise to all that is have to say about your petty utterances?

Nothing, that's what. Because It has already said and continues to say all that is.

But I suspect It would not disallow your being a little punk with spraypaint.

P.S. -- Sorry. I meant crab-paint.

@chaney3 said
#1 I don't think Adam and Eve were evil.

#2 Requiring 'payment by death' defeats the idea of forgiveness.

God's unwillingness to forgive Adam and Eve sets up the need for Jesus.

Many of us don't recognize the evil that we do, we see it as just life as it is, and you
and they are no different. God created us in His image, what that means and how
it affects all things is not something we can wrap our minds around easily.

The salvation God gave us in Jesus Christ paid the debt we have accumulated
throughout all time and Jesus took the full punishment for us, so the righteousness
of God was satisfied and the love and grace of God were also shown, God taking
our ashes, the guilt, and shame we have before him, and gave us beauty in
exchange by giving us His Spirit.

@kellyjay said
Many of us don't recognize the evil that we do, we see it as just life as it is, and you
and they are no different.

Many of us don't recognize the evil that we do

What evil do you do?

@fmf said
Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it" and forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. Gosh, you have to engage in all manner of linguistic contortions to crowbar your weird philosophy into the sentences you use to try to explain it.

A judge cannot forgive a rapist for a rape to be merciful to the rapist without at
the same time denying the one who was violated justice. All crimes, all sins, are
also, crimes against God as it is all His kingdom, it is all His universe, and we are
all His people, justice for each act, for each word, for each thing we do, will be
settled one way or another and God did it in such a way that satisfied His nature
completely not sacrificing His holiness, righteousness, and justice in Him while
loving us, and giving us mercy on the cross. Evil is not recognizing our guilt before
Him and saying there is nothing wrong with ourselves, we don't need the grace
of God, the more love God shows us that we reject the greater the evil we display.

@fmf said
Many of us don't recognize the evil that we do

What evil do you do?

Expect your reply to be dodged.

@kellyjay said
A judge cannot forgive a rapist for a rape to be merciful to the rapist without at
the same time denying the one who was violated justice. All crimes, all sins, are
also, crimes against God as it is all His kingdom, it is all His universe, and we are
all His people, justice for each act, for each word, for each thing we do, will be
settled one way or another and God did ...[text shortened]... t need the grace
of God, the more love God shows us that we reject the greater the evil we display.

You are curling yourself into a pretzel. Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it" [ADDRESS THIS] and forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it [ADDRESS THIS]. Stop being do cowardly

@fmf said
Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it" and forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. Gosh, you have to engage in all manner of linguistic contortions to crowbar your weird philosophy into the sentences you use to try to explain it.

It was a crime against God, and the moment it happened they were separated from God due to their sins, died being separated from the source of life. You may hold the holiness of God in little esteem, God doesn’t so reconnecting to God could not just happen, but through the cross it could.

@kellyjay said
It was a crime against God, and the moment it happened they were separated from God due to their sins, died being separated from the source of life. You may hold the holiness of God in little esteem, God doesn’t so reconnecting to God could not just happen, but through the cross it could.

You are going off on a generic tangent.

Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it".

Forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. 

@fmf said
Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it" and forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. Gosh, you have to engage in all manner of linguistic contortions to crowbar your weird philosophy into the sentences you use to try to explain it.

You can ignore evil, you can allow it, you can embrace it, you are not God.

@fmf said
You are going off on a generic tangent.

Forgiving an immoral act is not the same as "ignoring it".

Forgiving it certainly isn't the same as "justifying" it. 

BUMP for KellyJay.