08 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidTHe bible makes it clear "Faith without works is dead"
The answer is very simple although Christians would not like it. Jesus knew that His death justified all of mankind in the sense that the curse of Adams sin was removed. Paul described this clearly in Romans 5:18. All that is required now is righteousness and good works which Jesus took great pains to describe in detail in the Sermon on the Mount and other places.
The ...[text shortened]... . all the time. Yes, those who do good works will see the Kingdom of God. If in doubt read Matt 25
08 Oct 23
1 edit
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
I would have thought so, though for me their would be a line in the sand, thst would depend on the standing of the person in question.
(In my opinion) the thing that Christians should not be is "part of the world", but they should operate within the world doing their thing, but not shutting themselves away (e.g. monastories).
The Bible tells you that " the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". The world is run by politics; therfore a political vote is a vote for satan's system.
Take it a step further if you live in the USA or the UK whoever you vote for will be involved in wars. If I'm a Christian Democrat who voted for Biden, to what extent am I complicit in the lives that US forces are behind? Personally, I think very much so. It would equally apply to being a tory in the UK etc. If you are voting for a political party that you know will take life and they do it, you are an accomplice.
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08 Oct 23
@medullah saidI presume you are replying to Ghost of a Duke’s last comment.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
I would have thought so, though for me their would be a line in the sand, thst would depend on the standing of the person in question.
If so, can you please explain your reply here in relation to emulating Christ?
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08 Oct 23
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@medullah saidFaith without works is dead, as without works faith was never alive.
THe bible makes it clear "Faith without works is dead"
Good works are an automatic consequence of a genuine faith. (Like throwing a stone in a river and causing ripples).
Edit: Or if you prefer, how a large mass like the sun has an impact on space, causing instantaneous gravity.
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08 Oct 23
@divegeester saidThe atonement of Christ, from a Christian perspective, has to be the greatest expression of altruism in all of history.
I presume you are replying to Ghost of a Duke’s last comment.
If so, can you please explain your reply here in relation to emulating Christ?
The bible tells the believer on numerous occasions to emulate such altruism in their dealings with others. Even something as simple as charity should be done without pride, and the left hand not seeing what the right hand is doing. (A selfless act.).
"Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others." (Philippians 2:3-4)
08 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidNot if Jesus was God.
The atonement of Christ, from a Christian perspective, has to be the greatest expression of altruism in all of history.
08 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI would say that Christians are required to be altruistic.
Would it be fair to say Christians are expected to be altruistic, emulating the selfless act of Christ?
08 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidBut it's the "He was God" belief that places the big question mark over the whole "it was the greatest expression of altruism in all of history" claim.
Wasn't Jesus also a man?
08 Oct 23
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@fmf saidChristianity does not follow Christ, not the example and not the teachings. Jesus never claimed he was God. Neither did Jesus boast of his altruism or of his righteousness. Jesus scarcely told anyone that he was going to die for the sins of the world, or that people must believe in his death and resurrection. None of these teachings that boast of Christ, boasting that they love Jesus or that they have an intimate relationship with Jesus, was ever taught by Christ. These people are delusional. They have changed the true teachings of Christ about good works and righteousness and turned it around into something evil, by claiming those who do good works are practicing 'works salvation' ... whatever that is.
But it's the "He was God" belief that places the big question mark over the whole "it was the greatest expression of altruism in all of history" claim.
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08 Oct 23
@fmf saidJesus was fully man when he died and cried out on the cross, atoned for the sins of humanity.
But it's the "He was God" belief that places the big question mark over the whole "it was the greatest expression of altruism in all of history" claim.
God did not die on the cross or atone for humanity's sin.
08 Oct 23
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@divegeester saidPaul addressed born-again, saved Christian Saints in Christ, warning them in almost every one of his letters that if they do not live righteously and do good works they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. This type of Christian is practicing dead faith.
As a Christian yourself, do you believe that this clearly defined principle of dead faith equates to either non salvation or losing salvation, if at all?
These are saved, justified Christians, so whether its non-salvation or losing salvation is really a non issue.
08 Oct 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI know Christians are fond of claiming Jesus was fully man and fully God. However I cannot remember seeing anywhere Jesus made that claim. If you know of such passages I would like to see them.
Jesus was fully man when he died and cried out on the cross, atoned for the sins of humanity.
God did not die on the cross or atone for humanity's sin.
As a child Jesus was no normal human child. At age 12 Jesus was preaching to leaders in the synagogue and they were astounded. There are claims that Jesus was doing miracles in that time as well.