What is it to be human?

@fmf said
Our capacity for projecting ourselves in abstract ways and affecting people and also our capacity to be affected and influenced and shaped by the abstractions projected by other people;

our ability to remember, learn and adapt to these interactions [i.e. our personal narrative that each of us, individually and exclusively, has access to;

and our ability to form a moral co ...[text shortened]... er to govern our interactions with others.

This stuff is what sets us apart from all other life.

Our capacity which to project came to us how? This seems a bit out of the normal for a unguided, blind, materialistic, of all the natural laws to form within us. For that matter even our ability to think things through doesn't seem to be something chemicals coming together could create.

Your moral compass isn't a good thing if is independent of all other moral compasses. Good and bad become another abstract which turns all things into equally good or bad depending on who is having a thought. Even animals don't treat their own as bad as we treat ourselves. So why do you call this something to cheer about? Wouldn't that make less than?

@fmf said
"Limitless" in what way?

Moral compasses are the product of our hard wiring in tandem with our experiences.

If we are products only of hardwires our desires and judgments are all that guide us there is no real choice for us. If there isn't a moral law that we are bound to than the product of each person's moral compasses are just whatever they want to be when they want it be. You can change it to suit you and the reality of that isn't something you could really condemn because they were just wired that way. Nothing you have, nothing you are, are of any more importance to anyone, taking your stuff could be just how someone else is wired. You could condemn them, but your condemnation is just too a product of wiring, no real dispute for what is right or wrong, only the wants and needs of the wired.

@fmf said
If there is a creator being then we presumably have in common with all life forms that we were created by it/him. I don't have any problem seeing what sets us apart from all other life; if you do have a problem with that, I am not sure what I can say to you.

Have not asked you anything about my faith. I'm not even attempting to compare yours and mine.

@fmf said
I will post my stab at an answer to question again here:

[b]I think our humanity ~ whether we be theists or atheists ~ draws on the fact we are evidently endowed with a capacity for projecting ourselves in abstract ways and also we are affected and influenced and shaped by the abstract projections of other people.

Added to this, we clearly have individual spirits ~ perhaps ...[text shortened]... hink all that could just as well be about dogs as it could be about humans, then I am truly stumped.

Individual spirits, I was unaware you took the metaphysical beliefs seriously, what makes you think spirits and souls are real things? Even applying purpose to human beings suggest we are here for a reason, a cause, which blows away the lawless moral compass thing you were talking about else where, a cause can only come from intent.

@fmf said

Therefore, I see our humanity – and perhaps even the ‘purpose’ of being humans, at least for me – as being about loving and being loved and learning and helping others to learn about our species and our world in the time we have before we die and cease to exist. That’s our common humanity, I’d say.

This is probably the most profound Christian statement made on this SF in a long time.

Christ’s entire message in the gospels can probably be summarised in this one sentence: Love is the fullfillment of the Law

Never once did he say “Woe unto you adulterers and fornicators, you will all burn in hell” , but he said this to the self-righteous religious leaders. He forgave sins left right and centre, WITHOUT people even asking him! His message was one of acceptance, inclusivity (especially of the outsider), caring for the underdog and emphasised that God is the Father of us ALL.

We are all connected, and to every living thing. Paul says “Christ is all and in all”.

If we were to practice only 1% of Christ’s teachings, we would stop checking who is “saved” and who not, but merely ask “who is my neighbour?” and act accordingly.

Thanks, fmf.

@caljust said
This is probably the most profound Christian statement made on this SF in a long time.

Christ’s entire message in the gospels can probably be summarised in this one sentence: Love is the fullfillment of the Law

Never once did he say “Woe unto you adulterers and fornicators, you will all burn in hell” , but he said this to the self-righteous religious leaders. He ...[text shortened]... o is “saved” and who not, but merely ask “who is my neighbour?” and act accordingly.

Thanks, fmf.

Jesus also said "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Jesus was being perfectly clear. Believe and have everlasting life, or believe not and face God's wrath.

Your post is a spurious attempt to mischaracterize the message and meaning of the Bible. While it is true that love is the overarching attribute of God, God has also the characteristic of wrath, which He says repeatedly He will pour out on an unbelieving world.

It's coming.

@kellyjay said
Individual spirits, I was unaware you took the metaphysical beliefs seriously, what makes you think spirits and souls are real things?

It's in my answer to your question on page 2.

@caljust said
This is probably the most profound Christian statement made on this SF in a long time.

Hey now, well. Gosh. Thanks [I think], CalJust. But I'll have to get my backroom staffers to work on how to spin this and maybe draft a press release that protects my brand! Ha ha.

@kellyjay said
Even applying purpose to human beings suggest we are here for a reason, a cause, which blows away the lawless moral compass thing you were talking about else where, a cause can only come from intent.

Humans find and create their own purposes. Yours is closely tied to your religion. Mine is as I have described it. This is a reflection of our human capacities and not, in and of itself, necessarily a result of design. And I haven't talked about any "lawless moral compass thing" so I think you are mistaken to think that your or anyone's perspective has 'blown it away'.

@secondson said
Jesus also said "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Well, maybe if some Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists who "reject" [i.e. don't believe in] Christ can go to "Heaven", then - who knows? - maybe some atheists can too on account of how they lived their lives ~ much to their surprise, no doubt.

@kellyjay said
Have not asked you anything about my faith. I'm not even attempting to compare yours and mine.

Your belief in a creator being - and the jury-being-out on that matter for me - seems to be a stumbling block for you when it comes to discussing humanness.

@fmf said
Hey now, well. Gosh. Thanks [I think], CalJust. But I'll have to get my backroom staffers to work on how to spin this and maybe draft a press release that protects my brand! Ha ha.

Sorry to embarrass you, fmf.

But seriously, somebody can make a profound Buddhist statement and not be a Buddhist. And yours went to the core of Christ’s teaching.

Actually, the term “Christian” can be very confusing. You mentioned in another post that Christianity is the world’s largest religion.

There are three main branches, being Roman Catholic, Protestant and Eastern Orthodox. All three have (obviously) some common themes but vary vastly on some others.

The RHP SF brand of Christianity is a relatively small subset, and it is mainly represented in the US, where it represents arguably a fairly large proportion of Christians (jncluding Donald Trump). But by no means are they the exclusive, or even conclusive representatives of Christian Truth.

This brand is characterized largely by the following:
1. A belief that the Bible is literally and verbally inspired by God.
2. From this follows a belief in a six-day creation, a global flood, a literal Tower of Babel and the verbal veracity of other poetic stories in what is essentially Hebrew culture. (A return to Flat Earth thinking is a relatively new phenomenon).
3. A belief in eternal bliss for all those who believe exactly like they do, and eternal punishment for those who dare to believe differently.

It should be put on record that this is by no means the view of all who would call themselves Christian.

It is my sincere opinion that Christian Fundamentalism (defined amongst other points by my three above) is as big (or even bigger) a threat to humankind as Militant Islam Fundamentalism or any other form of us-them divisiveness.

@secondson said
Jesus was being perfectly clear. Believe and have everlasting life, or believe not and face God's wrath.
Your post is a spurious attempt to mischaracterize the message and meaning of the Bible. While it is true that love is the overarching attribute of God, God has also the characteristic of wrath, which He says repeatedly He will pour out on an unbelieving world.
It's coming.

Tell us some more about this wrath you say is “coming”. When is it coming do you think and what exactly do you believe will happen to non Christians?

@divegeester said
Tell us some more about this wrath you say is “coming”. When is it coming do you think and what exactly do you believe will happen to non Christians?

It is a theologically accurate belief to say that those who consciously reject christ are in peril of eternal damnation.

Christ speaks about this when he talks about the sheep and goats.

@fmf said
Humans find and create their own purposes. Yours is closely tied to your religion. Mine is as I have described it. This is a reflection of our human capacities and not, in and of itself, necessarily a result of design. And I haven't talked about any "lawless moral compass thing" so I think you are mistaken to think that your or anyone's perspective has 'blown it away'.

But if someone creates their own purpose arbitrarily, it can be said that people can create absurd things that are meaningless and even destructive to themselves and others.


Theres no purpose in an atheist universe