What is it to be human?

@darfius said
Because we are created beings, we will never be able to fully understand how God created us, but I agree that we should strive to discover as much truth as we can on the matter. Why would you being an atheist involve you caring about humanity, or did you mean that you happen to be an atheist and also happen to care about humanity? How is belief in the deity of Jesus Christ holding back humanity?

I mentioned my atheism out of courtesy (so you knew my position). Being an atheist isn't a prerequisite for caring about people, though you appear (erroneously) to believe it is a disqualifier.

By your own premise, If a created finite human cannot understand an infinite God, wouldn't this also be true for a finite human understanding the infinite (uncreated) universe they reside in?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I mentioned my atheism out of courtesy (so you knew my position). Being an atheist isn't a prerequisite for caring about people, though you appear (erroneously) to believe it is a disqualifier.

By your own premise, If a created finite human cannot understand an infinite God, wouldn't this also be true for a finite human understanding the infinite (uncreated) universe they reside in?

Since God is Love, I do admittedly believe that to rebel against Him involves a lack of love on the part of the rebel. I did not say we could not understand God, only that we could not understand that aspect of Him peculiar to His ability to create "from nothing."

I will defer responding to your claim about the universe, since we are already discussing that in the other thread.

@darfius said
Since God is Love, I do admittedly believe that to rebel against Him involves a lack of love on the part of the rebel. I did not say we could not understand God, only that we could not understand that aspect of Him peculiar to His ability to create "from nothing."

I will defer responding to your claim about the universe, since we are already discussing that in the other thread.

I do not rebel against the God you have chosen to believe in. I simply do not recognize or accept His existence.

Do I also stand accused of rebelling against Santa Claus?

(Welcome back to the forum by the way).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I do not rebel against the God you have chosen to believe in. I simply do not recognize or accept His existence.

Do I also stand accused of rebelling against Santa Claus?

(Welcome back to the forum by the way).

Thank you for the welcome back.

As the Bible says, men are without excuse for not believing in God, since His existence and power can be clearly seen from the world He created, unlike Santa Claus, who is not even claimed to have created the world in which you live and for which you should be grateful for and are not. It does not get much more rebellious than refusing to thank the being who gifted you life.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
As an atheist, I care about humanity enough to want all this religious nonsense resigned to history, as it is holding us back as a species. Laziness resides in the 'God did it' approach rather than seeking the genuine answers.

It isn’t being suggested that you couldn’t care, but do you have to? If it is only a personal choice as some seem to think, no matter what you are not wrong. It is only possible to be wrong if there is a right that holds us all accountable.

@darfius said
Thank you for the welcome back.

As the Bible says, men are without excuse for not believing in God, since His existence and power can be clearly seen from the world He created, unlike Santa Claus, who is not even claimed to have created the world in which you live and for which you should be grateful for and are not. It does not get much more rebellious than refusing to thank the being who gifted you life.

Oh, I don't recognize the Bible either. (Though have studied it more than the average Christian, so no 'lazy atheist' comeback please).

@kellyjay said
It isn’t being suggested that you couldn’t care, but do you have to? If it is only a personal choice as some seem to think, no matter what you are not wrong. It is only possible to be wrong if there is a right that holds us all accountable.

I think this is a fundamental breakdown in the understanding of how humans work.

I don't believe in God. True. Caring about people, however, is 'not' a choice for me. That simply isn't how caring works. I care, because I care. - To attribute such a thing to the presence of a deity is one such example of religion holding us back as a species and undervaluing our true potential.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Oh, I don't recognize the Bible either. (Though have studied it more than the average Christian, so no 'lazy atheist' comeback please).

You needn't recognize the Bible to recognize the argument it made that I cited.

@darfius said
You needn't recognize the Bible to recognize the argument it made that I cited.

The argument carries no weight 'because' I do not recognize the book that makes the argument.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The argument carries no weight 'because' I do not recognize the book that makes the argument.

Ok. Men are without excuse for not believing in God, since His existence and power can be clearly seen from the world He created, unlike Santa Claus, who is not even claimed to have created the world in which you live and for which you should be grateful for and are not. It does not get much more rebellious than refusing to thank the being who gifted you life.

Fixed.

@darfius said
Ok. Men are without excuse for not believing in God, since His existence and power can be clearly seen from the world He created, unlike Santa Claus, who is not even claimed to have created the world in which you live and for which you should be grateful for and are not. It does not get much more rebellious than refusing to thank the being who gifted you life.

Fixed.

Not much of a fix old chap as you are yet to evidence that a deity (let alone your particular deity) is responsible for creation, or indeed that a creation event actually took place.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Not much of a fix old chap as you are yet to evidence that a deity (let alone your particular deity) is responsible for creation, or indeed that a creation event actually took place.

Existence requires explanation. Only a self-Existent being can explain the existence of created beings (created beings consisting of everything we see around us). In short, we think, therefore He is.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think this is a fundamental breakdown in the understanding of how humans work.

I don't believe in God. True. Caring about people, however, is 'not' a choice for me. That simply isn't how caring works. I care, because I care. - To attribute such a thing to the presence of a deity is one such example of religion holding us back as a species and undervaluing our true potential.

You are not addressing the question it doesn’t matter how you feel about people one way or another, but is there a way that we should! If you think it is fine by you but hold no one else to care about others, this removes guilt for anyone for anything, because it is always a personal choice, or just how one is put together.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Not much of a fix old chap as you are yet to evidence that a deity (let alone your particular deity) is responsible for creation, or indeed that a creation event actually took place.

The evidence is there, refusing to acknowledge it doesn't sweep it under the rug.

@kellyjay said
You have another way at looking at that?

No, I really DO think you are entitled to your opinions about other people's morals. There are no two ways about it.