What is the point of eternal suffering?

@fmf said
Thanks for taking the time to try what was presumably your best to explain your notions about supernatural things to me. So... "Hell" is not part of your God figure's creation, it is not created by anyone, those consigned to "damnation" send themselves to it by choice - i.e. that's where they want to go - despite having no credible reason to believe it even exists, and the ensuin ...[text shortened]... ernity for rejecting it as incoherent and far-fetched. Thanks. I will pass it on to people, perhaps.

Thanks for taking the time to try what was presumably your best to explain your notions about supernatural things to me.

You're welcome.

So... "Hell" is not part of your God figure's creation, it is not created by anyone, those consigned to "damnation" send themselves to it by choice - i.e. that's where they want to go - despite having no credible reason to believe it even exists,

So you are suggesting that there is nothing credible about the belief that there is a God who created in the universe, and there is nothing compelling about the message of Christ and the Gospels? That'd be inaccurate.

They're very credible.

and the ensuing torture in burning flames for eternity ~ which after 18 months you have suddenly declared to be a metaphor,

Wrong -- a total distortion of an interaction that we had earlier.

I stated that literal burning flesh and literal fire are not what I assume hell to be. This goes back with your effort to make it sound like there is some divine intervention by God to keep people conscious or to revive them or some such, which is not a part of any description that I have actually heard.

I am not suggesting that hell is a metaphor.

As far as the "18 months" comment goes, I don't get it. Are you saying I have changed my position? I haven't. Prove your statement.

is administered by nobody

RIght, there is no agent that is actively working to hurt -- rather, the result of one's sins and choices is what is occurring in hell. There is no active agent of torture on the side of GOd.

has absolutely no moral purpose

This would be the semantics argument that we had earlier in the thread. There is a lot of subtlety in the position put out -- anyone who would like to catch up and see the dsicussion would have to view several pages of it, beginning I think on page 2.

FMF here is not actually describing this honestly, either.

he flames do not destroy people

We are said that it is an eternity, but it is perhaps more important to clarify that the people here are souls and not corporal bodies as far as I know.

although you don't care for it being termed malignantly narcissistic, you believe that it makes plenty enough divinely-inspired moral sense to believe that, if anyone hears about your arguably bizarre and unsubstantiated beliefs and thinks they are nonsense, then they will be tortured in burning flasmes -

That would not be an accurate description of what I have said leads to hell, though. People who are unrepentant and reject communion with God are in danger of hellfire.

What element is narcissistic? Would you care to explain? You have just thrown the words out there.

I also realize you never responded to me when I said it would not be narcissistic for a Muslim/Hindu to believe that I am going to be sent to one of the hells.

@philokalia said
So you are suggesting that there is nothing credible about the belief that there is a God who created in the universe, and there is nothing compelling about the message of Christ and the Gospels?

There may be a creator being. I don't find ancient Hebrew mythology and its offshoots believable just as I don't think I face torture after I die for not finding any of them believable.

@philokalia said
What element is narcissistic? Would you care to explain?

I already did. Refer to that.

@philokalia said
I also realize you never responded to me when I said it would not be narcissistic for a Muslim/Hindu to believe that I am going to be sent to one of the hells.

I did respond to it.

@philokalia said
This goes back with your effort to make it sound like there is some divine intervention by God to keep people conscious or to revive them or some such, which is not a part of any description that I have actually heard.

Fire kills and destroys people - pretty much straight away - but in your notion of "Hell" people suffer the torment in burning flames for eternity. Think it through.

@philokalia said
RIght, there is no agent that is actively working to hurt -- rather, the result of one's sins and choices is what is occurring in hell. There is no active agent of torture on the side of GOd.

If God didn't create "Hell" and isn't carrying out the torture, how can the torture exist?

@philokalia said
This would be the semantics argument that we had earlier in the thread. There is a lot of subtlety in the position put out -- anyone who would like to catch up and see the dsicussion would have to view several pages of it, beginning I think on page 2.

Anyone interested will find that your stated belief is that torment in burning flames for eternity has no moral purpose.,

@philokalia said
That would not be an accurate description of what I have said leads to hell, though. People who are unrepentant and reject communion with God are in danger of hellfire.

Torturing human beings because they reject "communion" with your Christian God figure only makes moral sense if all humans are aware of the Christian God's existence so that they can reject his teachings. The supposed "revelation" has been a failure if it is measured by a desire to bring all humans "to Christ". Oh but wait, you say that torturing them has no moral purpose. That's handy for you.

@philokalia said
I am not suggesting that hell is a metaphor.

A metaphor for an incomprehensibly violent and cruel punishment that has no moral purpose?

@philokalia said
So you are suggesting that there is nothing credible about the belief that there is a God who created in the universe, and there is nothing compelling about the message of Christ and the Gospels? That'd be inaccurate.

They're very credible.

They're very credible.

What would be the moral purpose of brutalizing someone who doesn't think so?

@philokalia said
So you are suggesting that there is nothing credible about the belief that there is a God who created in the universe, and there is nothing compelling about the message of Christ and the Gospels?

I quite like the Golden Rule type teachings but I don't believe they are divinely inspired nor do I think the Jewish rabbi they are attributed to was a divine being.

@fmf said
I already did. Refer to that.

I gladly repost links to the posts that I refer to that you question me about.

Why can't you keep track of posts you're referring to?

It might help us all if we actually had a long post reply format as opposed to us always filling up page after page with these single paragraph posts.

@fmf said
Fire kills and destroys people - pretty much straight away - but in your notion of "Hell" people suffer the torment in burning flames for eternity. Think it through.

Right. Theres eternal souls and God is said to radiate fire/light.

Where's the conflict.

@fmf said
If God didn't create "Hell" and isn't carrying out the torture, how can the torture exist?

When you cut your finger on a knife, the pain exists because of the knife and your action.

It's like that.

@fmf said
A metaphor for an incomprehensibly violent and cruel punishment that has no moral purpose?

Hell is real and not a metaphor.

And if people want to understand the discussion on purpose, they should go back to the earlier pages of this thread.

One of us is trying to use words in a nuanced fashion and the other is fishing for sound bytes.