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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipIf the Bible is indeed the inerrant word of God then surely all Christians are qualified to determine the fate of people who reject Christ?
Who here feels qualified to prescribe what should be the penalty for rejecting Christ ?
I do not feel that I have the qualification to determine what the appropriate penalty should be for rejecting Christ.
If you feel that YOU have the qualification to teach God and all creation what the appropriate penalty should be for refusing to be reconciled t ...[text shortened]... ledge it here.
Tell us why you are so sure that you are qualified to make that determination.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThe innerant word of God (as you suggested) does not say that all of God's attributes are communicable to man. For sure it does say that man is made in His image and in His salvation some of His communicable attributes are imparted to His people.
If the Bible is indeed the inerrant word of God then surely all Christians are qualified to determine the fate of people who reject Christ?
But not all are.
So an innerant Bible (as you suggested) does not say our ways are as His ways or our thoughts as His.
Rather it says the as high as the heavens are above the earth so high are His thoughts above our thoughts and His ways above our ways. So this would not suggest that anyone of believers is not now qualified to determine eternal destinies of one who perpetually rejects God.
New American Standard Bible
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts. " (Isa. 55:9)
I don't feel qualified.
If you do (whatever you are) say so.
if you say that there should be NO penalty, that might be like asking a congress of thieves to come to a consensus as to what the penalty for stealing should be. It is likely that they would decide there should be none. Their overriding priority is their own benefit not justice.
As an atheist you probably have a vested interest that there would be NO penalty (if you should turn out to be wrong).
Let someone else reply now that you have had your chance and apparently declined.
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02 Jun 18
2 edits
Who here feels they have the qualifications to determine what the penalty for rejecting forever a relationship with an eternal and perfect God should be? That is One who to the best of our understanding laid down His life to justify us from our sins.
I don't think I have the wisdom to know what God should do with such a being. I defer that decision to God.
If you feel qualified to inform God what that penalty should be tell us. And tell us why you possess those qualifications to know what God should do.
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipI have 'no' vested interest in there being no penalty for rejecting Christ. Do you still not grasp what it means to be an atheist? I am not hedging my bets. I do not believe in your God. Talk of 'penalty' is completely irrelevant to me on every possible level.
The innerant word of God (as you suggested) does not say that all of God's attributes are communicable to man. For sure it does say that man is made in His image and in His salvation some of His communicable attributes are imparted to His people.
But not all are.
So an innerant Bible (as you suggested) does not say our ways are ...[text shortened]... be wrong).
Let someone else reply now that you have had your chance and apparently declined.
To say I have 'declined' is not only a weak come back it only serves to highlight your inability to see things from an outside perspective. And please also note that you do not get to 'shut me down' in contributing to a discussion, and that my original point still stands. The Bible describes the fate of people who reject Christ, making all Christian qualified to answer the question. Let me know if you require biblical references.
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke<<The Bible describes the fate of people who reject Christ, making all Christian qualified to answer the question. Let me know if you require biblical references.>>
I have 'no' vested interest in there being no penalty for rejecting Christ. Do you still not grasp what it means to be an atheist? I am not hedging my bets. I do not believe in your God. Talk of 'penalty' is completely irrelevant to me on every possible level.
To say I have 'declined' is not only a weak come back it only serves to highlight your ...[text shortened]... all Christian qualified to answer the question. Let me know if you require biblical references.
Are you suggesting Christians know the conditions of everyone’s heart? Because John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 speak of believing in Jesus in your heart for salvation.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeBut are Christians qualified to determine who has rejected Christ and who hasn’t since one becomes a Christian by believing in Christ in one’s heart?
If the Bible is indeed the inerrant word of God then surely all Christians are qualified to determine the fate of people who reject Christ?
And if one is an atheist, is she or he incapable of accepting Christ in the future? How would a Christian know that person’s fate without knowing the future?
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
The Bible describes the fate of people who reject Christ, making all Christian qualified to answer the question. Let me know if you require biblical references.
You are changing the question.
What WILL happen we are told - Revelation 20:15.
I am qualified to echo what WILL happen. That's not my question.
If we were not told, who presumes they know what penalty would be appropriate? And based on what qualifications?
Since it is all a moot point to you as an Atheist I don't need to "shut you down". You "shut down" yourself, because you deem it irrelevant in total - as is what the Bible says to anyone.
I don't know why you want to hang around and morph the question into another.
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02 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipMorph the question?!The Bible describes the fate of people who reject Christ, making all Christian qualified to answer the question. Let me know if you require biblical references.
You are changing the question.
What WILL happen we are told - [b]Revelation 20:15.
I am qualified to echo what WILL happen. That's not my question.
If we were [ ...[text shortened]... ays to anyone.
I don't know why you want to hang around and morph the question into another.[/b]
You asked, "Who here feels qualified to prescribe what should be the penalty for rejecting Christ?
I answered 'ALL' Christians, as the penalty for rejecting Christ is clearly laid out in the Bible.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeNotice the difference.
Morph the question?!
You asked, "Who here feels qualified to prescribe what should be the penalty for rejecting Christ?
I answered 'ALL' Christians, as the penalty for rejecting Christ is clearly laid out in the Bible.
My question:
"Who here feels qualified to prescribe what should be the penalty for rejecting Christ?
as compared to
Your version -
"Who here feels qualified to prescribe what WILL be the penalty for rejecting Christ?
03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipThis post by you is an astonishing revelation of the level of your own brainwashing.
Who here feels they have the qualifications to determine what the penalty for rejecting forever a relationship with an eternal and perfect God should be? That is One who to the best of our understanding laid down His life to justify us from our sins.
I don't think I have the wisdom to know what God should do with such a being. I defer that decision to G ...[text shortened]... should be tell us. And tell us why you possess those qualifications to know what God should do.
Demanding “Qualifications” in order to disagree with you...
“rejecting forever a relationship with an eternal and perfect God” who will now burn you alive forever for rejecting him... I mean wtf REALY!!?
“I don't think I have the wisdom to know what God should do with such a being. I defer that decision to God.” In other words i abdicate all responsibility for rational thought and sensible morality.
I’m qualified... !
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonship
Notice the difference.
My question:"Who here feels qualified to prescribe what [b]shouldbe the penalty for rejecting Christ?
as compared to
Your version -
"Who here feels qualified to prescribe what WILL be the penalty for rejecting Christ?[/b]Ouch sonship, I don't think you really thought that through.
The Bible tells us what 'will' happen to unbelievers. By bringing in the 'should' question you are directly challenging the omniscience of God.
So again, 'all' Christians who trust in God's wisdom will surely believe what 'will' be done 'should' be done. The two are interchangeable.
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03 Jun 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeYou’re the one who didn’t think it through, Heartpence. He’s asking who among humans is in a better position than God to know what should happen to unbelievers? The obvious answer is none of us and the question is rhetorical. Each of us knows next to nothing about the spiritual realm, are not omniscient, not holy and do not see things from an eternal perspective.
Ouch sonship, I don't think you really thought that through.
The Bible tells us what 'will' happen to unbelievers. By bringing in the 'should' question you are directly challenging the omniscience of God.
So again, 'all' Christians who trust in God's wisdom will surely believe what 'will' be done 'should' be done. The two are interchangeable.
The Bible answers what will happen to unbelievers, though some believe annihilationism and not an eternity in hell await the damned.
Ouch indeed.
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03 Jun 18
4 edits
Originally posted by @divegeester
Demanding “Qualifications” in order to disagree with you...
No, should you disagree with Christ, your qualification is ... ?
God has committed all judgment into the hands of His Son.
" For neither does the Father judge anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, In order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:22,23)
Are you saying God should instead commit all judgment into the hands of Divegeester and that all should co-equally honor you as they honor the Father ?
God put into the hands of His Son judgment. God deems Him qualified. Why do you think your qualifications to judge eternally rival those of the Son of God?
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03 Jun 18
2 edits
“rejecting forever a relationship with an eternal and perfect God” who will now burn you alive forever for rejecting him... I mean wtf REALY!!?
For one your filthy mouth casts doubt on your goodness, pureness, and qualification to determine the eternal destiny of rejectors of Christ.
When Christ was reviled, He blessed rather than cursed.
The purity of His love, even praying that the Father would forgive those who killed Him, adds to His divine qualification to determine eternal destinies.
"And Jesus said, Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing. " (Luke 23:34a)
You're cursing like a dog returning to its vomit or a sow wallowing in the mud.
Why do you feel you have the purity of heart to determine eternal destinies ?
The "second death" is no place for any who are in any way "alive". It is some kind of existence but it is not the living of the "alive".
All we know is the realm of physically being alive. God then has the job to do to communicate to us something which we have no experiential concept of.
He has done this in terms that it is hard to misunderstand - "the lake of fire". This probably does not mean that it is only a physical lake such as a lava flow but that may be just the beginning. That may be the only part that connects with the world we are familiar with as an entrance.
By forcing limitation on what we could imagine as a lake of fire we cannot argue its illogical nature. Or we could argue but it would be unwise.
"Because He has set a day in which He is to judge the world in righteousness by the man whom He has designated, ... (Acts 17:31a)
Do you have such qualifications that God would designate the day of world judgment "in righteousness" to YOU ?
"Because He has set a day in which He is to judge the world in righteousness by the man whom He has designated, having furnished proof to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:31)
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03 Jun 18
2 edits
Christ cared nothing for Himself.
Christ wanted everything for the Father, to the uttermost.
Have you ever wanted EVERYTHING for God at the cost of all comfort and benefit to yourself? If you have not been as absolute for God and His will, you don't have the qualification in righteousness to righteously determine one's eternal destiny.
“I don't think I have the wisdom to know what God should do with such a being. I defer that decision to God.” In other words i abdicate all responsibility for rational thought and sensible morality.
No it means I trust in God. I am willing to let God be God.
I know that I myself need saving from the ravishing of sin.
Both the Saving and the Judging I trust the Son of God to do righteously.
I’m qualified... !
I think had you been the one to lay down your glory and become obedient unto death, and that the death of a cross, for the enemies of God, then God could designated you as the universal judge.
Christ as the universal Savior is qualified as the universal Judge, not you. To the degree that the Christians are conformed to His image they may assist Him in some judgment (First Cor. 3:6,7) in the millennial kingdom.
"Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy of the smallest judgments?
Do you not know that we will judge angels, not to mention things of this life?"
I see the saints of God participating in some assisting of Christ to judge in probably temporal matters pertaining to the millennial kingdom.
But to determine what the eternal destiny should be for those who reject God, that's nowhere in the Bible.
Pertaining to that I defer to Jesus and I say "Amen" in trust that He knows best.