What will be the fuel?

Originally posted by @fmf
divegeester does not subscribe to sonship's interpretation of Revelation 14:9-11. I don't see how being opposed to the doctrine of eternal torture makes a Christian a "God-hater". Don't you disagree with the doctrine of eternal torture too?

If a truly omnipotent but perfectly loving deity does exist, then someone being 'opposed to the doctrine of eternal torture' is not a 'God-hater' but a 'God-defender.'

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
If a truly omnipotent but perfectly loving deity does exist, then someone being 'opposed to the doctrine of eternal torture' is not a 'God-hater' but a 'God-defender.'

God is also perfectly just. That attribute is often forgotten.

Originally posted by @sonship
”And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire”

Do you believe that this “book of life” is a literal book with pages and words written on them with a literal ink type substance?

Like you believe there is a literal “tree of life” (Romans1009 believes there are multiple “trees of life” by the way. That’s a good one isn’t it.)

And like you believe there is a literal “tree of knowledge of good and evil” with literal knowledge “fruit” on it which a human being can literally consume through mastication and digestion, and which then somehow impacts the human beings whole physical and spiritual metabolisms such that they are literally pronounce dead, but are still walking around.

Presumably you also believe there is literal “whore” sitting on a literal “dragon”?

Originally posted by @divegeester

Do you believe that this “book of life” is a literal book with pages and words written on them with a literal ink type substance?

I believe in both a book of like and a lake of fire.
I don't know the exact physical properties of either.

This does not address my question - why you would consider the you have the qualification to advise God on what He SHOULD do with the perpetually and everlastingly reconciled unrepentant rebel against Christ.

How will their existence effect the fabric of eternity ?
Should they be allowed to carry on revolt forever ?
Should God grant them the comfort of revolt followed by non-existence?

What is right?
I believe what God has said must be right upon which a greater cannot be.

"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)

If you think you could be a higher referee and governor, to my thinking you would have to have borne a testimony rivaling and even surpassing that of Christ.

You would have to display greater love, greater endurance and longsuffering, greater wisdom, greater willingness to forgive, greater absoluteness for the will of God.

Like you believe there is a literal “tree of life” (Romans1009 believes there are multiple “trees of life” by the way. That’s a good one isn’t it.)

You are talking with me now.
And I never spoke of multiple trees of life.

I said I thought John saw a vine tree growing and spreading along the river of the water of life. Jesus is "the true vine". In the sign that John saw I believe it was not multiple trees but one growing, spreading, vine tree all along the sign of the river of the water of life.

I don't know what Roman1009 said about that.

And like you believe there is a literal “tree of knowledge of good and evil” with literal knowledge “fruit” on it which a human being can literally consume through mastication and digestion,

We talked about a literal tree in Genesis.
I said I would not be surprised if as Satan entered into Judas when he ate the morsel with Jesus, hypocritically at that supper, so when Adam and Eve ate of some fruit they got connected to an evil spiritual being.

I have written nothing on a literal tree of the knowledge of good and evil since then.

You seem to be trying hard to erect a strawman to knock down.

and which then somehow impacts the human beings whole physical and spiritual metabolisms such that they are literally pronounce dead, but are still walking around.

I pointed out that interaction with some physical things in the Old Testament carried with that interaction profound spiritual consequences.

Ie. the ark of the covenant.

A man was struck dead because he presumptuously touched it outside of the God ordained principle as to how only the priests were to handle it. (See 2 Samuel 6:7)

The man thrown dead into the grave of Elisha the prophet came back to life because of touching Elisha's bones (See 2 Kings 13:21).

There seems to be ground to understand that God dealt with people on occasion based on their interaction with something physical. This tree of the knowledge of good and evil may have been like that. And the garden's tree of life may have been like that also.

Today He wants us to know that in Christ is the divine, uncreated, eternal life in the resurrected God-man. To now insist that we have to find a physical tree would be to rebel against what God has gone ON now to impress us with.

"The thief does not come except to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly." (John 10:10)

"In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." (John 1:4)

" I am the resurrection and the life." (John 11:25)

"When Christ who is our life ... " (Col. 3:4)

"I am the way and the truth and the life ..." (John 14:6)

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

"The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus ..." (Rom. 8:2)

"It is the Spirit that gives life..." (John 6:63)

"Because I live you also shall live." (John 14:19)

"Lay hold of the life which is life indeed." (1 Tim. 6:19)

"For me to live is Christ ..." (Phil. 1:21)

"It is no longer I that live but Christ that lives within me." (Gal. 2:20)

"as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)

Christ today is the reality of the tree of life.

Presumably you also believe there is literal “whore” sitting on a literal “dragon”?

Would you prefer to presume or know what I believe?

If you wish you may take this question to the thread on Quality Questions on Revelation. There I will expound for you on the mother of harlots in Revelation.

Originally posted by @sonship
This does not address my question...

Are you wanting to get into our question exchange challenge now sonship?

Originally posted by @divegeester
Do you believe that this “book of life” is a literal book with pages and words written on them with a literal ink type substance?

Like you believe there is a literal “tree of life” (Romans1009 believes there are multiple “trees of life” by the way. That’s a good one isn’t it.)

And like you believe there is a literal “tree of knowledge of good and ...[text shortened]... around.

Presumably you also believe there is literal “whore” sitting on a literal “dragon”?

<<Like you believe there is a literal “tree of life” (Romans1009 believes there are multiple “trees of life” by the way. That’s a good one isn’t it.)>>

A lot of people do based on the verse in Revelation quoted previously on this thread. How can one tree of life be on either side of a river? When you can explain that, you can resume your mockery.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Do you believe that this “book of life” is a literal book with pages and words written on them with a literal ink type substance?

Like you believe there is a literal “tree of life” (Romans1009 believes there are multiple “trees of life” by the way. That’s a good one isn’t it.)

And like you believe there is a literal “tree of knowledge of good and ...[text shortened]... around.

Presumably you also believe there is literal “whore” sitting on a literal “dragon”?

<<Presumably you also believe there is literal “whore” sitting on a literal “dragon”?>>

Maybe that’s the way you and your chums talk in the schoolyard at Shetland Primary, but you clean it up in here, tiger.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Are you wanting to get into our question exchange challenge now sonship?

I’ve seen less posturing and negotiating before a championship prize fight. Why not just ask your question, tiger?

Originally posted by @divegeester
Are you wanting to get into our question exchange challenge now sonship?

I've lost interest in any prolonged back and forth contest.
You can ask me something if you wish. I won't perpetually debate you.

I told you before, you can have another view of the verses under discussion if you wish. If you think non-being is what is seen there as punishment, you just be convinced of that within yourself before God. Teach it if you think you should and can.

I won't be joining you.

Maybe one day you'll kind of graduate from the apparent need to nudge others about it like this - "Remember the smell of the carnage of burning flesh ? Defend that. Remember the screams and shrieks of agony of billions. Defend that. "

As far as I have been able to figure out you just don't believe certain things belong in the Holy Bible. I suppose you think their presence there is a mistake - perhaps a copyist's error having crept into the ancient Greek text.

As far as I can figure you waver somewhere between saying -

"God never said those things." and

"God said them but you have to interpret them to mean the opposite of what they said to know what it means."

I would like to go on from "What will be the fuel?" to some far more positive aspects of the revelation given to us by God.

Originally posted by @romans1009
<<Like you believe there is a literal “tree of life” (Romans1009 believes there are multiple “trees of life” by the way. That’s a good one isn’t it.)>>

A lot of people do based on the verse in Revelation quoted previously on this thread. How can one tree of life be on either side of a river? When you can explain that, you can resume your mockery.

John saw a vine tree.
It spread up and down the river on either side.

Probably hails back to Christ being the true vine in John 15.

Originally posted by @sonship
I've lost interest in any prolonged back and forth contest.
You can ask me something if you wish. I won't perpetually debate you.

I told you before, you can have another view of the verses under discussion if you wish. If you think non-being is what is seen there as punishment, you just be convinced of that within yourself before God. Teach it if yo ...[text shortened]... will be the fuel?" to some far more positive aspects of the revelation given to us by God.[/b]

You’re being prickly again.

The only reason I’m asking you about this “question challenge” is because you keep accusing me of refusing to answer your question when I am more than happy to do so...IF you will promise unequivocally to answer one of mine - one of the ones you always run away from. You won’t answer those questions, you know you won’t, because every time you run away from them in a bad mood. So stop pretending there is something else going on here. Getting all antsy about is just you trying to cover this little phenomena up.

Originally posted by @sonship
Maybe one day you'll kind of graduate from the apparent need to nudge others about it like this - "Remember the smell of the carnage of burning flesh ? Defend that. Remember the screams and shrieks of agony of billions. Defend that. "

These are your crappy beliefs sonship not mine! YOU are the proponent of eternal suffering through being burnt alive for eternity, not me.

If billions of people are being supernaturally kept alive by Jesus while he burns them forever...do you think the place will be full of singing and the smell of freshly cut flowers?

These are YOUR beliefs, not mine. Try to keep that in mind.