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23 May 21
@sonship saidThere is nothing depraved about the teachings of Jesus. They are frequently profound and beautiful. (Even when seen through the eyes of an atheist).
You may imagine that Jesus is depraved. But His life and words are there in history as the elephant in the living room. My faith is based on all of what Jesus Christ was and said and accomplished.
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23 May 21
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There is nothing depraved about the teachings of Jesus. They are frequently profound and beautiful. (Even when seen through the eyes of an atheist).
But FMF does not realize that my faith is 100% based on Christ's life, work, words and acts in the New Testament.
I do not blame others for corrupting the New Testament.
I do not say Paul messed it all up.
I do not take only what I like and say "Jesus taught THAT" and blame others for
His words which are harder for me to like.
FMF is saying the central main character of the Bible is depraved.
Perhaps God seems depraved because he so much wants to do what he wants to do what he wants to do and NOBODY should judge or interfere with it. Interference could be depravity to this person. Repentance could be an abomination to him.
The thought of being changed by Christ's presence in his life may be a sick prospect to him. I don't agree if that is the case.
23 May 21
1 edit
@sonship saidThe moral ideology that you propagate so incomprehensibly is the thing that is depraved, not some supernatural figure that you just so happen to believe in. What you tout as "perfect morality" is literally infinitely more evil than anything any humans have ever done to one another.
You see in the Bible depravity in God.
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23 May 21
@sonship saidI don't agree with him.
FMF is saying the central main character of the Bible is depraved.
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23 May 21
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I have said no such thing. You're making it up.
When people take some of your thoughts to their logical conclusions, you claiming that they are making things up is incorrect. The stuff was made up by you.
I get quite a clear impression that God in the 66 books of the Holy Bible is to you depraved. You package your attitude in such phrases like (I said like ) ie. "The god you subscribe to" or "the god figure that you talk about".
You package my presentation of the Bible's teaching as "your version" (meaning me) which you claim portrays a depraved God. Whether you like it or not you are talking about Jesus Christ, His claims, His references to His Father, His words, His deeds, His usage of the Old Testament Scriptures, His wisdom.
Let's be realistic. This is the God that turns your stomach in disgust and in revulsion - the Bible's Triune God - Father - Son - Holy Spirit of the 66 books of the Bible. You don't even say SOME of the things you read about God turn you off. You say God in His entirety of attributes and character are far beneath you - depraved.
Of course you also have said that you admire the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5 - 8). . That's about God, the kingdom of God, the kingdom of the heavens, and the teaching of the Son of God.
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23 May 21
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidI assume you two differ on some things.
I don't agree with him.
I would like FMF to go through say the first chapter of the Gospel of John and pinpoint the FIRST "depraved" thing he reads there.
He says he admires the Sermon on the Mount. Those chapters are all about "the kingdom of the heavens", an administration under this God he finds "depraved."
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23 May 21
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The moral ideology that you propagate so incomprehensibly is the thing that is depraved, not some supernatural figure that you just so happen to believe in. What you tout as "perfect morality" is literally infinitely more evil than anything any humans have ever done to one another.
What I "propagate" is what I QUOTE to you from the Bible.
Everything I "propagate" here I accompany with references from the Bible.
I propagate quite many things about God and His work, usually always such propagation is backed up where anyone can verify where in the Bible I learned such a concept.
Face it FMF. The first thing you should admit is that it is the God propagated in the teaching of Jesus Christ which you condemn as depraved.
I think you should FIRST settle that matter. It is not my personal version of a god figure you condemn. It is who the whole Bible manifests in varied and multifarious ways that creates a total picture to you of depravity.
The Savior God, you say, is depraved.
The God who became a man and was made sin on our behalf that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him, this One you accuse of depravity. The beef is not with sonship. Your revulsion is about what sonship points out that the Bible REVEALS.
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23 May 21
Let's be fair that the teaching of a last judgment is not easy for the human mind to take sometimes.
It would be much harder to take without such a plan of salvation in the New Testament. The NT says God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth.
I think He desires all men therefore to be saved. And not just to be saved but come to the full knowledge of the truth of the eternal purpose of God.
It is not easy for me to believe that there could be an ultimate offense against God. It is not easy to understand that some will be frozen in their chosen state of rebellion and unbelief. So we need time for Jesus to save us and conform us to His image. While we are on the bridge of time we need to let the Savior God be Who He is for us.
23 May 21
@sonship saidJust address what I actually say. There is no need to make up things and falsely attribute them to me.
When people take some of your thoughts to their logical conclusions, you claiming that they are making things up is incorrect. The stuff was made up by you.
23 May 21
@sonship saidI don't believe that the particular God figure that you worship exists. So I hold you responsible for any morally incoherent assertions you make, and not some figure that appeals to your imagination.
Face it FMF. The first thing you should admit is that it is the God propagated in the teaching of Jesus Christ which you condemn as depraved.