‘Eternal suffering’ is nonsensical

Originally posted by @freakykbh
Well, at least we're making headway and you're acknowledging that such a thing, truth, exists independent of the observer.

I have never denied that. It is only when 'ultimate truth' is waved around in relation to such things as morality that I take issue.

Originally posted by @suzianne
You, sir, are so full of yourself that you have no business speaking in this way... to anyone, much less to those whom you rank as somehow 'below you', which I assume is everyone, according to you.

Yet another "Christian" falling short.

You assume wrong.
On nearly everything.

Thanks for looking out, though.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I have never denied that. It is only when 'ultimate truth' is waved around in relation to such things as morality that I take issue.

I imagine only those that enjoy torturing babies for fun take offense when someone claims it the 'ultimate truth' that torturing babies for fun is always wrong?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
I imagine only those that enjoy torturing babies for fun take offense when someone claims it the 'ultimate truth' that torturing babies for fun is always wrong?

The above poster is reminded not to bother responding to my posts and to instead seek help with his torturing babies for fun fixation.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
The above poster is reminded not to bother responding to my posts and to instead seek help with his torturing babies for fun fixation.

The only reason why you would be reluctant to agree that certain moral 'ultimate truths' exist is because it would be impossible to reconcile it with your atheistic beliefs, so your behavior is perfectly understandable.

Originally posted by @sonship

For some, i'm afraid, ultimate truth has nothing to do with God.

If man is the measure of all things, then which man is ?

Any reason why you'll respond to all my posts, but not this one:

'Take for example my (hypothetical) elderly neighbour, a woman who, although not perfect, has spent her life caring for others and is genuinely loving and kind. She is however a non-believer, perhaps having suffered much in her life and unable to reconcile this with the notion of an an omnibenevolent deity. - Now to burn anybody alive for all eternity is indeed a disgusting concept, but sonship's God would do the same to this kind and loving neighbour, simply because she didn't believe in him,......and wait for it,.........in accordance with his righteousness. She simply would have to burn to keep Him righteous.'

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
[b]Any reason why you'll respond to all my posts, but not this one:

I'll answer after I re-ask you my question for which I expect your reply.

If man is the measure of all things, which man in history best embodies in that measuring stick (so to speak) ?

Propose a name of a human being who most strikingly exemplifies to the best representative of man being the measure of truth.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
[b]Any reason why you'll respond to all my posts, but not this one:

'Take for example my (hypothetical) elderly neighbour, a woman who, although not perfect, has spent her life caring for others and is genuinely loving and kind.

Often hypothetical scenarios like this are requests for me to conduct the last judgment prematurely. You are requesting for me to step into the place of God and before the last judgment, judge.

I am not qualified to do that. I am like one in the crowd whom Jesus told -

" ... He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." (John 8:8:7b)

I can believe that Christ will judge all.
I can announce the good news of His salvation.
I can do this without answering someone's request to step into His place and beforehand, conduct the last judgment.

You are suggesting that to believe in a final judgment requires me to determine what each case will be. I am not in the place of God to do that.

She is however a non-believer,

I have to admit that we are warned about being a non-believer.
Refined and cultured non-believers are warned.
Course and uncouth non-believers are warned.

If you're implying that cultured and refined non-believers need not heed the gospel, I can find no encouragement in that direction in the Bible.

I have to consider warnings such as what is exalted among men is an abomination to God.

What is exalted to us may be an abomination to God.

Luke 16:15 :

"And He said to them, You are those who justify your selves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts; for that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God."

I have to heed that from Christ's mouth as a significant heads-up.
Rebellion against God may be cloaked in seemingly noble works.

" God I rejected You. But I did THIS good thing instead."

In the development of Satan from being the highest created being, it says that he was perfect in wisdom. The initial stage of his revolt against God was most likely beautiful and refined in appearance.

"You were perfect in your ways from the day that you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you." (Ezek. 28:15)

The beginning of Satan's fall was probably with a corruption so apparently masked in refinement and beauty, only God could detect the hypocrisy.

perhaps having suffered much in her life and unable to reconcile this with the notion of an an omnibenevolent deity.

Some people believe in God but have a controversy with Him.
The oldest book in the Bible, Job, has a man who had every conceivable reason to disbelieve in God in the midst of his suffering.

He was good and he was suffering. Why ???

it is interesting to me that this is the oldest Bible book as if this is perhaps the first thing on created man's mind. "If God lives ... then WHY am I who am good, suffering so?"

Some people with resentment towards God express their exasperation to others. They may still secretly know that God is there. They have a controversy with God.

We all do at some time or another.

- Now to burn anybody alive for all eternity is indeed a disgusting concept, but sonship's God would do the same to this kind and loving neighbour, simply because she didn't believe in him,......and wait for it,.........in accordance with his righteousness. She simply would have to burn to keep Him righteous.'

I expect to be shocked at the extent of God's omniscience and insight into every being's circumstances. Your cynicism is based on our human limitation of not knowing all as God knows all.

I think this works both ways.
Our little flashlight is of a few watts to give light.
God's insight is of infinite wattage to expose all things with unknown illumination.

Jesus seems to warn us that what we have will a factor in the last judgement. That is the amount of revelation that we had seems to be relevant.

"And you Capernaum, who have been exalted to heaven, to Hades you will be brought down. For if the works of power which took place in you had taken place in Sodom, it would have remained until today.

But I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." (Matt. 11:23,24)

It is hard not to assume that Christ means degrees of culpability in the judgment related to how much revelation people had. More tolerable or less tolerable imply being examined according to how much one knew better.

In coming up with hypothetical cases, you should remember also, that that person's case may not be your case. Your neighbor's will be her case. And your case will be yours. And mine, mine.

What are you going to do with Jesus Christ, your neighbor not withstanding?

Originally posted by @sonship
I'll answer after I re-ask you my question for which I expect your reply.

If man is the measure of all things, which man in history best embodies in that measuring stick (so to speak) ?

Propose a name of a human being who most strikingly exemplifies to the best representative of man being the measure of truth.

No man is the measure of all things. Knowledge is the accumulation of such throughout human history. - Or as Isaac Newton said, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."

Originally posted by @sonship

perhaps having suffered much in her life and unable to reconcile this with the notion of an an omnibenevolent deity.

Some people believe in God but have a controversy with Him.
The oldest book in the Bible, [b]Job, has a man who had every conceivable reason to disbelieve in God in the midst of his suffering.

He was good and h ...[text shortened]... And mine, mine.

What are you going to do with Jesus Christ, your neighbor not withstanding?[/b]

I find your responses to my scenario wholly unsatisfactory.

You 'expect to be shocked at the extent of God's omniscience' while I am shocked at the extent of His tyrannical cruelty and your willingness to accept it.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I find your responses to my scenario wholly unsatisfactory.

You 'expect to be shocked at the extent of God's omniscience' while I am shocked at the extent of His tyrannical cruelty and your willingness to accept it.

You 'expect to be shocked at the extent of God's omniscience' while I am shocked at the extent of His tyrannical cruelty and your willingness to accept it.

I take in the entire revelation of the Bible.
The whole book is not Matt. 25:46 or Rev. 20:15;

Because I take in the whole disclosure I recognize the "kindness and severity of God.".

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke

I find your responses to my scenario wholly unsatisfactory.

I expect that.

Once I was involved in some building which required the chopping down of some trees. There was one large tree that was cut down and then cut into sections. Outside of each section the outer bark of the tree looked healthy and normal. Inside I was amazed to see it all rotted away with disease.

This is how fallen man is. Too often real eating corruption is not seen on the outside. The Bible says that by works of the law no flesh will be justified before God.

Every mouth is shut before God when trying to self justify ourselves this side of the fall of man.

"Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may fall under the judgment of God.

Because out of works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him ... " (Rom. 3:19-20a)

I emphasize what God has gone through in His coming in Jesus Christ that we may be justified eternally by His redemption.

Sometimes we can only see the bark, the outside of a person.
Christ taught that we all need to be saved.

And Paul establishes that none are righteous.

"There is none who understands, there is none who seeks out God.

All have turned aside; together they have become useless; there is none who does good; there is not so much as one,

Their throat is an opened grave, with their tongues they practiced deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips;

Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness. Destruction and misery are in their ways, And the way of peace they have not known.

There is no fear of God before their eyes." (Rom. 3:11-18)

So we needed the Son of God to bear up our sins in His body on Calvary. Substitution takes place when we believe in the Son of God.