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Originally posted by shortcircuitYou're not paying attention. so once more.... slowly...
Are you thick???
If a guy customarily gets 4 AB's per game and he misses 96 games....he missed out
on nearly 400 AB's.
Even you should be able to figure out that his production during those missed games
would severely have skewed this in Hamilton's favor.
CAREER AT BATS:
Joey Votto.... 2367
Josh Hamilton.... 2420
I know this is going to be tough for you to digest, but 2420 is more than 2367.
Originally posted by shortcircuitI don't care what the "experts" stuck in 1975 would say.
Well, hate to break this to you, but if you ask the experts right now how they rank
the best hitters in baseball it will be Hamilton, Kemp, Votto.
Don't believe, check it out. Hell turn up your volume when they discuss it on ESPN
or the games.
I have no dog in this fight. I saw the debate and did my own research, de novo.
And the research is clear: Votto is the best offensive player of the three. Next is Hamilton and Kemp lags well behind.
The numbers could not be any clearer.
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Originally posted by sh76Learn math:
You're not paying attention. so once more.... slowly...
CAREER AT BATS:
Joey Votto.... 2367
Josh Hamilton.... 2420
I know this is going to be tough for you to digest, but 2420 is more than 2367.
Hamilton AB's
2008 624
2009 336
2010 518
2011 486
2012 157
This totals 2122
Now, after you have completed the remedial reading course and you come to grips
with the boundaries we established, then you can argue. Don't try to compare apples and oranges.
Votto AB's
2008 526
2009 469
2010 547
2011 599
2012 138
This totals 2279
No 1 only wanted to consider 2008 to present because all 3 were starters then.
Originally posted by no1marauderI do wonder why Kemp is above Hamilton in WAR when the percentage stats favor Hamilton... but that's a side issue.
SC needs to get in the 21st Century and use WAR (Wins Above Replacement) like any decent sabermetrician. Since 2008 the offensive WARs of the three players are:
Votto 21.3
Kemp 20.6
Hamilton 19.9
The stats don't lie; JV is the best.
Originally posted by shortcircuitThat's still pretty close; a different of less than 7% and of course, wouldn't matter in terms of percentage statistics, which are the ones I mainly focus on.
Learn math:
Hamilton AB's
2008 624
2009 336
2010 518
2011 486
2012 157
This totals 2122
Votto AB's
2008 526
2009 469
2010 547
2011 599
2012 138
This totals 2279
No 1 only wanted to consider 2008 to present because all 3 were starters then.
Throw up all the smoke screens in the world; but the percentage numbers are plain as day Votto has Hamilton beaten by 38 points in OBP and the SLG is similar. Add to that the fact that Votto plays in a slightly worse offensive ballpark (again, according to baseballreference) and there's just nothing you can do to change the numbers and their inevitable conclusion.
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Originally posted by sh76Well, then where does Albert Pujols fit into this argument?
That's still pretty close; a different of less than 7% and of course, wouldn't matter in terms of percentage statistics, which are the ones I mainly focus on.
Throw up all the smoke screens in the world; but the percentage numbers are plain as day Votto has Hamilton beaten by 38 points in OBP and the SLG is similar. Add to that the fact that Votto plays in a ...[text shortened]... e) and there's just nothing you can do to change the numbers and their inevitable conclusion.
Up until this year, he has been the man. He is also rated the 28th best hitter of all time.
EDIT: FYI, here is where the three players rank on that same list
381 - Josh Hamilton
384 - Matt Kemp
418 - Joey Votto
source : http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi
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Originally posted by shortcircuitPujols dwarfs all of them.
Well, then where does Albert Pujols fit into this argument?
Up until this year, he has been the man. He is also rated the 28th best hitter of all time.
EDIT: FYI, here is where the three players rank on that same list
381 - Josh Hamilton
384 - Matt Kemp
418 - Joey Votto
source : http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi
.325/.416/.609
168 OPS+
I don't know how they got the rankings. Maybe Votto is a bad fielder or 1B just get very little credit for fielding score. But in terms of an offensive player, votto is superior to Hamilton and Kemp.
Originally posted by sh76The ratings were based on the full array of offensive stats.
Pujols dwarfs all of them.
.325/.416/.609
168 OPS+
I don't know how they got the rankings. Maybe Votto is a bad fielder or 1B just get very little credit for fielding score. But in terms of an offensive player, votto is superior to Hamilton and Kemp.
No credit for defense.