02 Nov 06
Originally posted by chris stephensDoes that mean come change over there's no dodge whitehall can pull to claim unpaid whatever and delay the streaming of funds to the Scottish purse by a matter of months or a year or two. At the rate that that revenue is made it would'nt take long to put the Scots on the back foot and have you guys going through some austrerity measures instead of the hoped for big spend.
nonsense. under the 1968 Shelf Jurisdiction Order agreed in Geneva, scotland would be entitled to 90% of the current taxation revenues from North Sea Oil and Gas. Fact.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by kmax87Before we were independant, there would be negotiations with London to sort all these sorts of issues out.
Does that mean come change over there's no dodge whitehall can pull to claim unpaid whatever and delay the streaming of funds to the Scottish purse by a matter of months or a year or two. At the rate that that revenue is made it would'nt take long to put the Scots on the back foot and have you guys going through some austrerity measures instead of the hoped for big spend.
If they were going to try and pull this sort of dodge, it would be picked up in these negotiations and sorted out.
We'll have our funds from Day 1.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundWell, we're not really going to go anywhere with this.
The point is that they are indeed "British". Being Part of "Great Britain" is , as Inahvoe would say, a Straw man.
I won't labour the point any more, but the whole argument is based on a false premise.
Northern Ireland is Part iof the Island of Ireland - True.
The Northrern Irish are British - whether Red likes it or not, True.
The only ...[text shortened]... insistence in Using semantics in this argument Red is really quite funny at this stage.
All I'd say is that there is no such thing as a British passport. It is a UK passport. The UK of GB and NI.
I've not referred to the ideological debate about NI. That isn't really my point - I'm not arguing whether or not NI should be in the UK.
I'm saying that NI is not in GB, ergo people from NI are not British.
You say I'm using semantics. If by that you mean I'm using the correct meaning of a word, then I'll plead guilty.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by Redmike(1) Who the hell do you think is going to negotiate with the likes of you and the SSP?
Before we were independant, there would be negotiations with London to sort all these sorts of issues out.
If they were going to try and pull this sort of dodge, it would be picked up in these negotiations and sorted out.
We'll have our funds from Day 1.
(2)Go on kidding yourself and indulging in your fantasies. It'll never happen, unfortunately.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundIt's not semantics, HH- he's right.
The point is that they are indeed "British". Being Part of "Great Britain" is , as Inahvoe would say, a Straw man.
I won't labour the point any more, but the whole argument is based on a false premise.
Northern Ireland is Part iof the Island of Ireland - True.
The Northrern Irish are British - whether Red likes it or not, True.
The only ...[text shortened]... insistence in Using semantics in this argument Red is really quite funny at this stage.
Read the above posts again. Many people get confused on this, but Red's absolutely right here.
The prods in the North will indeed insist they are British, and they will do so based on one of two reasonings. The first might by lineage back to the original planters, who were indeed British. But as pointed out above, that makes every Us/Canadian/Australian/New Zealand etc. etc. British too, if their ancestors came from Britain. And noone would argue that, surely.
And they second is just being poorly educated about their own part of the world and its history. The Union was G.B. and Ireland, and is now G.B. and N.I. B= island. I. = island. It's geographical! It was never G.B. = British Isles (again, a geographical term!). The Union was of two entities, but never made Ireland one with Britain- that's just a nonsense.
People must learn to distinguish politics from geography. The history of these islands should not be confused.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by RedmikeNo you are using a turn of phrase in place of facts my friend.
Well, we're not really going to go anywhere with this.
All I'd say is that there is no such thing as a British passport. It is a UK passport. The UK of GB and NI.
I've not referred to the ideological debate about NI. That isn't really my point - I'm not arguing whether or not NI should be in the UK.
I'm saying that NI is not in GB, ergo people from ...[text shortened]... s. If by that you mean I'm using the correct meaning of a word, then I'll plead guilty.
Great Britain was never used by anyone else except you, which you have used to make a ludicrous argument, your correct wording was your own invention and the turn of phrase wholely irrelevant.
This has nothing to do with Sinn Fein holding the same socialist views to your beliefs has it ? It has appeared clear to me that you are not actually taking on my points, rather you have laboured on a turn of phrase that you brought into the argument in order to Chaff those who disagree with what you believe. I now think that it is more to do with your party affiliations to a party with similar marxist policies, rather than any serious attempt by you to actually talk reasonably.
02 Nov 06
By the by, the Great in G.B. is also geography, and not anything to do with how great the Saxons think they are.
Great Britain is the Big Britain, to be distinguished from the original Little Britain, namely Brittany.
Also, just to clarify, Britain itself is a Celtic name, going back to the Celtic original Britons, i.e. the Welsh (Just like Scotland actually = Ireland in name!!!...)
And they were singing and stewing leeks and generally having a good time in Britain long before any of the Angles or Saxons to whom these 'British' people in Northern ireland wish to trace their roots, ever thought of venturing onto the island.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundSinn Fein are socialist in their hole.
No you are using a turn of phrase in place of facts my friend.
Great Britain was never used by anyone else except you, which you have used to make a ludicrous argument, your correct wording was your own invention and the turn of phrase wholely irrelevant.
This has nothing to do with Sinn Fein holding the same socialist views to your beliefs ha ...[text shortened]... th similar marxist policies, rather than any serious attempt by you to actually talk reasonably.
Hey, how about that game, HH? I'm sorted for a connection now, me thinks.
02 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by sjegThe fact that Northern Ireland is not Physically attached to England is a hoodwink argument dreamed up by Red Mike, and is not in question here. It's like me saying a An apple tree is a plant, and the argument against it being that an apple is not a vegitable but a fruit. . .It's still a Plant.
It's not semantics, HH- he's right.
Read the above posts again. Many people get confused on this, but Red's absolutely right here.
The prods in the North will indeed insist they are British, and they will do so based on one of two reasonings. The first might by lineage back to the original planters, who were indeed British. But as pointed out above, that o distinguish politics from geography. The history of these islands should not be confused.
Northern Irish Unionists are British, it's got shag all to do with the island mass not being stuck onto the end of the Thames. . .that would make them kinda french anyway.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundThis has nothing to do with party politics, or any views I might have about what the situation in Northern Ireland might be, nor any similarity you might think there is between my politics and those of SF (which are less than you might think).
No you are using a turn of phrase in place of facts my friend.
Great Britain was never used by anyone else except you, which you have used to make a ludicrous argument, your correct wording was your own invention and the turn of phrase wholely irrelevant.
This has nothing to do with Sinn Fein holding the same socialist views to your beliefs ha ...[text shortened]... th similar marxist policies, rather than any serious attempt by you to actually talk reasonably.
This is about what the current position is.
A century ago, when there was a union between all of Ireland and GB, where the people of Dublin British?
02 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by RedmikeThe people of Dublin are still to this day Called "Jackeens" by the Country people because they were the last county to pull down the Union Jack, And Dual nationality was offered to those in the republic right up until the 60's (i might have the date wrong, i'll let someone clarify that).
This has nothing to do with party politics, or any views I might have about what the situation in Northern Ireland might be, nor any similarity you might think there is between my politics and those of SF (which are less than you might think).
This is about what the current position is.
A century ago, when there was a union between all of Ireland and GB, where the people of Dublin British?
edit. i sent that challenge Sjeg