02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundThat's all very fascinating, but it doesn't answer my question.
The people of Dublin are still to this day Called "Jackeens" by the Country people because they were the last county to pull down the Union Jack, And Dual nationality was offered to those in the republic right up until the 60's (i might have the date wrong, i'll let someone clarify that).
In 1915, were the people of Dublin British?
02 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundNo- look at it like this, with your analogy (and please do read what I wrote above, so I don't feel it necessary to repeat it).
The fact that Northern Ireland is not Physically attached to England is a hoodwink argument dreamed up by Red Mike, and is not in question here. It's like me saying a An apple tree is a plant, and the argument against it being that an apple is not a vegitable but a fruit. . .It's still a Plant.
Northern Irish Unionists are British, it's got sha ...[text shortened]... mass not being stuck onto the end of the Thames. . .that would make them kinda french anyway.
If you have a garden with two old trees side by side, one an apple tree, one a peach tree, and you take a few peaches and put the on the apple tree, it doesn't make it a peach tree, does it?
(of course, that falls down as the peaches wouldn't have hung around on a tree that wasn't theirs for 400 years...)
It's apples and peaches or pears or what you like. But NI Prods are Irish whether they like it or not. And frankly, I can think of quite a few peoples I would be proud to be sharing a name with other than them. Just as I'm sure it doesn't fill most english with pride to see those particular people waving the Union Jack.
How about that game, anyway?
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundlol - you said this on page 2, then as far as I can tell all subsequent pages are choc full of your good self and others nit-picking about NI and being British.
Normally i would be happy to debate this issue, but i can already see the way this thread is going to turn out.
An independant country in europe could give us a voice in the world, and a common defence force would be the sensible option. I do although , fear that sensible is not something that could be associated with a debate in this forum, and i see that the mud slinging has already begun.
Back to the subject, and looking at why Scotland joined the Union in the first place. Was it not due to their independent investment in Darian going tits up, and therefore Scotland saw it as much more economically viable to join in a Union with England, from which their finances benefitted a lot more at the time than when it was independent before. So if that was the case, what is the present day situation - is it now more economically viable to stay in the Union or not?
02 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by Bosse de NageYou missed the boat there- the argument as it stands makes Heaney (whom I met, by the by, he's a legend) Irish.
Is Seamus Heaney a British poet?!
British and Northern Irish people have this in common: they are subjects of Her Majesty the Queen.
It also makes, buh, I don't know, think of a Nobel-Prize winning Northern Irish Protestant writer or poet who was handy with a pen, and I'll get back to you.
{side issue}
But if we use sport, it the logic makes Georgie Best (prod), and Eddie Irvine (prod) Irish. Incidentally, they both declared themselves so, and received death threats from Unionist thugs. And also Lennon, celtic captain and N.I. international (Catholic), who declared for N.I. football team despite traditional practices, but for local loyalty, and what did he get? yep, you guessed it, death threats for being Catholic. {end side issue - back to point}
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by catfoodtimRead the posts carefully mate, the Great Britain bit is not in Question.
Huck: Mike and sjeg are right. Check out your passport. Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
It's part of the UK, not part of Great Britain. It might be ruled from London, but its inhabitants are not British - they are Irish or citizens of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, depending on their own choice.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by sjegThat's what I was getting at: I can't imagine anyone thinking of Heaney (yes, he is a legend) as a British poet, although he was born in Northern Ireland.
You missed the boat there- the argument as it stands makes Heaney (whom I met, by the by, he's a legend) Irish.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundCatfood has understood it perfectly, Huck- you should really read the question again yourself....
Read the posts carefully mate, the Great Britain bit is not in Question.
And play me at chess before you do! 😉
Anyway, forget this, get back to the main topic.
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by Bosse de NageQuite right- sorry, I missed your point there.
That's what I was getting at: I can't imagine anyone thinking of Heaney (yes, he is a legend) as a British poet, although he was born in Northern Ireland.
He's from Derry! Hurrah. Ok folks- I've some lasagne to take care of. Life is beautiful!
It's sunny in Rome. Been like summer up to now.
Have fun.
02 Nov 06
2 edits
Originally posted by RedmikeNo i am stating that thew Northern Irish are British, not that they are part of the Geographical landmass called Great Britain. . .Can we please at least be arguing about the same thing ?
No, you're insisting that you can be British without being from Great Britain, as I understand it.
other things that might lead you to believe that NI is British....
They travel under a British passport
All legal Bodies are registered as British
They use the Pound Sterling
they apear in the British towns and cities list . . . http://www.british-towns.net/n_ireland.asp
There is no Northern Ireland Embassy, As they travel under a British passport they would in times of trouble be directed to the "British embassy" (dual nationality yadda yadda).
They still work in MPH.
I could go on, but i guess you would still tell me that i am not arguing the point i am arguing. . .strange debate this, no set question therefore no conclusion.
edit. still waiting for you to make your move Sjeg 🙂
02 Nov 06
Originally posted by huckleberryhoundBut Britishness and Irishness are not decided by blood/creed or what have you, Huck- that's the point.
No i am stating that thew Northern Irish are British, not that they are part of the Geographical landmass called Great Britain. . .Can we please at least be arguing about the same thing ?
other things that would lead you tobelieve that NI is British....
They travel under a British passport
All legal Bodies are registered as British
They use ...[text shortened]... guing the point i am arguing. . .strange debate this, no set question therefore no conclusion.
If you have a kid who was born here, the kid would be Irish!!!